Good all around hunting Smokepole .54 cal or .58 cal?

[traditional man]

Be using it for deer, an maybe black bear. I have seen CVA, TC, Lyman ones. CVA seems to be a bit cheaper for a starting ML. What would be a max range for deer hunting with a .54, .58 patch n ball, Maxi Ball?

Thank you!

 

[aeatwood]

If you want to stretch it, you want 1600-1800fps out of a PRB. That is going to be easier to do with the max recommended powder charge in most .54 rifles. I would not hesitate to shoot a black bear w/ a .54. A .58 would suit me better, but you will probably need 120gr. of powder or more to get the velocity for a flat trajectory. It will kick a bit more than the .54, but none of them are bad if properly stocked. .58 and up I would definitely want something on an English Sporter stock.

I have a Christian Springs flinter that is very comfortable to shoot w/ 430gr .658" ball and 150gr of Goex 2F.

 

[Snakebite]

.54. 100yds max with roundball, never fired a maxi or mini.

In My Opinion

 

[Lonegun1894]

Out of the ones you listed, I would recommend the Lyman or TC over a CVA. Not that the CVA won't shoot well, but having all three of the ones you mentioned, the better quality of the Lyman and TC is obvious over what the CVA offers. All mine shoot about the same though. Caliber wise, I prefer the .54 for just about everything, and trust it to a little past 100 yds, as most will tell you the limit is for almost anything with a PRB. PArt of the reason is that the PRB loses a lot of steam by the time it reaches 100yds, and part is that the rifles we discuss here use traditional iron sights, as opposed to any kind of optics and such, which limits the range somewhat due to you and me being a limiting factor as much as the gun itself. I can't comment on the conicals because I only use those in modern suppository guns and that experience doesn't apply to your question. But for the size game you mentioned, I wouldn't hesitate to use a PRB out of my .54. Just be warned, this is an addictive way to hunt.

 

[William O.]

For an all around muzzle loader I would choose the .54 made by Lyman. I admit that I'm biased after having owned several Great Plains Rifles (GPR's) as well as two Trade Rifles in both 50 and 54 calibers but always liked the .54 best. I doubt that there is any accuracy difference between the .54 and .58 either but at least where I live, supplies for the .54 are easier to come by. Max range will depend on how well you can shoot your particular rifle but I limit myself to no more than 100 yards and shoot round ball only.

 

[nkbj]

Be using it for deer, an maybe black bear. I have seen CVA, TC, Lyman ones. CVA seems to be a bit cheaper for a starting ML. What would be a max range for deer hunting with a .54, .58 patch n ball, Maxi Ball?

Thank you!

As was commented to above, the limiting factor is going to be the sighting system you choose. You can up the diameter and up the charge but sights that suit your needs will end up saying how far you can reliably take game. As concerns choice in caliber and projectiles, I recommend overkill.

 

[Mark Black]

A .535 PRB in front of 80-100 grain of 2F will pretty much take care of anything you want to shoot at here in the lower 48 :wink: Good luck! Oh yeah, 100 yards is plenty.....

 

[Little Wattsy]

.54. 100yds max with roundball, never fired a maxi or mini.

In My Opinion

Ditto.. It's so simple, easy, and RIGHT. :wink: The .54 is THE correct hunting caliber for the lower 48.

 

[BrownBear]

Lotta factory rifles to choose from in 54, and it's certainly easier to find components if you're not making your own.

Decide on a 58 and you'll be looking for a used gun or having one built, and you wont find components on just any shelf in any store.

On the other hand, if you already own a 50, the jump to 54 just isn't going to seem like a big switch.... Or at least that's the way it is for me. Skip a caliber, as in jumping from 50 to 58, and you'll definitely feel the difference.

As for deer/black bear, heck even elk and maybe moose, the 54 is dandy. Another having-said-that however, since I got sidetracked with 58's my 54's don't get much field time. Not a reflection on the 54 at all, rather the 58 is just a lot more entertaining to me.

Oh, what the heck.... How about throwing in a on-the-other-hand to go with my having-said-that. :grin:

Slip a heavy conical down the bore of either a 54 or a 58 and put enough powder behind it to flatten the trajectory for 100 yard shots, and you'll get your eyes opened. And become a serious fan of round balls! :rotf:

 

[tenngun]

Remember if you get a rifle that shoots rb it wont shoot minnies/maxis well and visaversa.I've killed elk with a 54 went through and through. Arb will kill any thing in the lower 48 out to 100 yards.The extra smack of a 58 cant hurt and 62 can be found.That being said sam hawkin made a lot of 53s and Henerys "english style "trade gun' was made in 54. You will get the best feel of ml if you use a rb you ran yourself :wink:

 

[aeatwood]

As far as max range goes, how far can you put the balls in a 6" circle EVERY TIME. If you have the patch/ball/lube combination right, your maximum charge of 2F black powder will shoot about as well as any other, and shoot flatter than lesser charges.

Keeping the ball within 3" of POA should give you a 90-100 yard zero, and a max of 115-125 depending on the velocity you are getting. What is absolutely VITAL is that you actually spend time shooting at the range you think you want to hunt. Zeroing at 100 yards, developing a load, and then never practice what you will do in the field is a recipe for disaster.

The hog rifle I'm having built is a .62, with a 2-leaf aperture rear. The intention is the low one should be good to 125 or so, and the high one should be good to about 160-175. Note that is for a pest rifle, not a "sport" rifle. While I don't like animals to suffer, a hog that runs off to die is still a win.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Be using it for deer, an maybe black bear. I have seen CVA, TC, Lyman ones. CVA seems to be a bit cheaper for a starting ML. What would be a max range for deer hunting with a .54, .58 patch n ball, Maxi Ball?

Thank you!

Range is not, should not be, the main consideration when going from modern to traditional ml hunting rifles. It is a difficult mindset to put aside when starting with traditional ml and black powder.
The traditional ml rifle is a great choice for deer and black bear within it's effective range. For me, that range is 100 yards or less, depending on your shooting abilities. The round ball is a very inefficient projectile and loses it's 'legs' at much shorter ranges than a modern bullet. You have to be willing to accept the limitations. If you can't, stick with the 30-06. Various ml bullets (maxi-balls, etc.) are, IMHO, nothing more than gimmiks. About like pretty lures for the fisherman. To answer your question, a .50 round ball will do a number on deer and black bear. But for bear the .54 would give a margin of insurance. This is a big subject. Many of us could type for hours answering it in detail.

 

[daddywpb]

Where I hunt, brush is thick and shots are usually not over 50 yards - about my limit with iron sights anyway. I bought a T/C Renegade percussion .54, and put a Green Mountain .58 barrel on it. Never even shot it as a .54 before I sold the barrel. About a year later, I found a .50 Renegade flinter, and had it rebarreled to .58. Both rifles shoot extremely well. A couple years ago, I shot a 210 pound hog with the flinter. PRB over 100 grains of FF Goex passed thru and thru and he dropped in his tracks. I love hunting with the big .58's.

 

[George T.]

The main thing as far as long range shooting with primative sights is the shooters ability and of course the shooting conditions such as light and brush. Round balls shed velocity pretty fast so as range increases shot placement becomes even more critical. Either rifle will work but the factory selection of 58's is slim indeed. The muskets really do not take the larger powder charges safely so the advantage is removed. Customs are another story all together. Geo. T.

 

[swathdiver]

I ask with all sincerity fellas, why not a military .58 caliber rifle like a P-58 Enfield?

 

[aeatwood]

I don't have that much experience with them, but in the examples I have seen, the martial .58's have limited adjustment for sights. The twist rate for the barrels right the rifling is generally shallow, and the barrel walls are thin.

The shallow rifling can make them a bit more difficult to load with a good tight ball/patch combo. They were designed for a service load of about 60gr of Fg musket powder with a concial bullet. You can increase that a good bit, but I would become leary of more than 80gr or so of 2F and a PRB. That will kill anything in the Western Hemisphere, but the trajectory will be kind of steep. Provided you are willing to sight it at 60-75 yards, and make 90-100 your maximum range, that load will do well. And it would be perfectly fine for any bear in North America.

 

[BrownBear]

I ask with all sincerity fellas, why not a military .58 caliber rifle like a P-58 Enfield?

AlanA summed up my limited experience with them pretty well, too. You can get the military arms to shoot PRB with some testing and thought, but it's likely to take a real tight ball/patch combo. And it's gonna hit a top end charge-wise sooner than one with more metal and deeper rifling. That's been an accuracy experience for me, but it could be that the heavier charges were just making the gun nervous about the thin barrel, and it was hard for me to make that nervous gun quit shivering. :wink:

If your ambition is more velocity and flatter trajectories with either PRB or conicals, I'd sure be thinking about thicker barrels at least, and deeper rifling for the PRB if that's the route you're following.

 

[Rat Trapper]

The choice of caliber all depends on what you plan to hunt with it. For most of us who only plan to hunt whitetail deer a 50 or 54 caliber is just fine. The 54 does allow for an advantage in case a elk hunt becomes possible. However I wouldn't worry about taking on an elk with a good conical in a 50. I think the important part is having a rifle that you are comfortable with and can shoot well.

 

[Little Wattsy]

I am a HUGE prponent of the .54 but I think a thought on choice of caliber needs to center on faith...
The gun you shoot that you KNOW you can hit your target at the yardeage you limit your self to and you KNOW that it will kill the animal humanly is the gun for you. If you doubt either its accuracy OR it lethality move on.
In my youth I shot a 7mm mag and had ALL FAITH in that gun, still do but more recently I "downsized" to a .270 win; I Love that gun and have equal to more faith in it because I am even more accurate with it then I am with the 7mm...
maybe not the best anology but having faith in your .50 would be better then doubting the accuracy of your .58. But then THAT is why you should just get the .54 :wink:

 

[tenngun]

today guns like the ar15 or brushmaster are military guns made to be carried and shot.Myself I have no use for them but a lot of folkes swear by them. The old rifled musket was a transition gun. It was a spear that shot,and even though it could kill or disable at 500 yards or more it was built as a handle for a bayonet. It had a heavy butt to be used as a club.Even though the war on the ground changed the import of the bayonet the rifled musket was still an updated brown bess,17th cent pike,pilum or sparten spear.It will kill in the woods,but is not a comfortable gun to use in the timber.Any hit on a man disables him not so on game. wonding a man is as good as killing him but you have to kill game as quickly as possable,not something an enfield or springfield was made to do :nono: