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spudnut

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I saw on the goex facebook page that they will pay for the storage safe and other expences to get buisnesses to sell their black powder, sounds good!
 

Loyalist Dave

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HOW MUCH powder does one need to store to qualify?
I know here in the People's Republic of Maryland, that they'd have kittens if I stored very much, and I suspect that at least where I am the authorities would find the amount in the storage container provided by GOEX, rather "naughty". ;)

Very nice of GOEX though!

LD
 

renegadehunter

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It would be awesome to see the opportunity of just picking it up locally increase.
But also makes one nervous and wonder a bit about their sales success.
 

Mad Irish Jack

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As a business;
1 What are your expected sales of BP (Goex; can't store anything else in their provided powder magazine safe]).
2 What will Goex require you to order from them (monthly yearly etc.)?
3 How much does your insurance expenses increase? ( That's fire, all liabilities to cover.)
4 Are there legal ordinance requirements you need to address? License required(Fed.;State, Local etc)
You can visit your local arms/ammo dealer and ask why they don't handle BP; Goex and others? For small quantities for personal use, you aren't required ( ordinances or legally; in most locals) to have a safe ammo box or other. But you should know how to store it.
 

Kansas Jake

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I think you need a special license to sell black powder, but it should be easy to get one if an FFL already. I don't know the cost. City, local and state regs may be a problem. I also suspect as Mad Irish Jack noted that insurance may be a financial obstacle. If it cost even a few hundred dollars a year extra it would take selling a bunch of BP to make it worthwhile. If I was a dealer and I could sell 100 pounds a year, and make $5 per pound, but it cost me $200 just for additional license and insurance it doesn't make much sense for the extra hassle.
 

Historian

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You have to have a federal license to sell Real BP. Go to the BATFE website and look. I am pretty sure you have to have a State license as well. You also have to keep it in an approved magazine separate from other flammable items, no brainer there. Now the gun shop that used to sell to me the owner kept it in a Styrofoam cooler behind the registero_O? Never could figure that one out. Ordering from Graf's is nice and easy but it would be nice if someone carried it here in North AL.
 

Zonie

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Your gun shop owner was asking for problems.

The Federal Government requires anyone selling black powder to have a locked storage vault that is built to their specific requirements. There are pages and pages of these dictating wall thickness and materials just to name a few.

These requirements do not apply to people who are buying the powder for sporting use so it doesn't effect us.
 

Henry Miles

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There are only 2 BP sellers in the Piedmont region of NC, maybe the only 2 in the state. One in Hickory that I know pretty well and have discussed at length the antics of the inspectors that come around to check up on his facility. They are literally making up their own requirements or interpretation of the requirements for the storage container. He has a metal gangbox with 2 exterior locking hasps with shields added to both hasps to prevent cutting the locks. They harass him on every visit but he's an ornery old fart who stands his ground and has been successful so far in keeping his "privilege". The objective is to discourage him enough to cause him to cease selling BP. He'd probably blow the place up first! BP is the only powder he sells along with old school firearms, no modern polymer, or plastic guns as he calls them. I've bought and traded quite a few times with him and his son and they are the only resource of the kind in the area. The visiting agents would love to force him out of the business of selling BP. He's limited to 50lbs as a seller but an individual can have as much as they like, with exceptions and requirements for storage.
 

Treestalker

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Back in the early '80s the FedGov would only allow an individual to possess 5 lbs of Black. Cannoneers had to get each crew member to buy powder before reenactments; Thanks to Ronald Reagan the limit was increased to 50 lbs and freedom rang! Gun crews were then able to buy 25 lb bags of 2FA blasting powder for a better price and keep the heathen hordes at bay! No more smuggling canister powder out of Mississippi to East Texas.
 

Stony Broke

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Back in the 80's I owned a gun shop in California and tried selling black powder. I got the license, proper storage container to meet regulations, and could never sell enough of it to even warrant paying for licensing and stuff like that. I was allowed to have 5 lbs on the premises at one time and had to keep the rest of a case at my house to be legal. I think I probably shot more of the powder than I actually sold most of the time. As a whole, I think folks are better off to get together with shooting clubs and you can order a case at a time and split it up however necessary to cover the expenses.
 

Zonie

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"... As a whole, I think folks are better off to get together with shooting clubs and you can order a case at a time and split it up however necessary to cover the expenses."
I agree but a word of caution, before someone gets the idea that a shooting club can just go out and buy a bunch of black powder and then sell it to its members.
A shooting club can't buy a bunch of powder and then just sell it to its members unless the club has a Federal License to sell explosives.

A shooting club can get around this by doing the following steps.

1. Appoint a designated person to act as an Agent and let everyone know who the agent is and that he is going to buy powder for the members who pay for it.

2. Anyone who wants the Agent to buy powder for them must pay for the powder before it is ordered. The Agent must keep records of who is buying the powder and how much each will get.

3. After all of the orders are in, the Agent will then contact the company that is selling the powder and order the entire amount in his/her name and have it shipped to his/her address. (Federal law limits the amount to 50 pounds.)

4. When the powder arrives, the Agent must contact each person who has paid for the powder and tell them it has arrived and then make arrangements for the person to pick up his order.

Notice that the Agent is not selling the powder to anyone. He/she is just serving as their agent in the transaction. That is why he/she does not need a Federal or State license to do this.

Occasionally, I read that some Clubs just buy a bunch of powder and then sell it to their members. It makes me cringe when I see these posts because, if the ATF gets wind of it and they find out it is true, the people at the club that have done it will face some very stiff Federal prison time.
 

Bassdog1

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I have been considering buying a case of powder for myself for quite a while and think it is time to pull the trigger. I have been testing Olde Eynsford 2F and 3F in the four guns that I will be keeping and have been very happy with it. 25 lbs is a lot of powder but I have a secure safe location to store it safely so may as well stock up for retirement years while I can afford it.
 

Stony Broke

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Zonie is right about clubs ordering powder for sale....I always found members getting together and one member would order a case, figure out the total cost per pound and let the other members have it for the same cost. It always seemed to work out fine that way.
 

VADSLRAM

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You just need to check with your local regs. Some require it stored in a secure but vented location. Fireworks licences require a "bunker" that has pressure release ports built in.
My local fire dept also asks to be notified if you are storing 10 or more pounds. I can see their point. If they are trying to put out a fire in your house they would like to know you have 15 - 20 lbs of 2F cooking off in a safe somewhere.
 

VADSLRAM

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And depending on your supply source (mine is skylighter) it costs less than 60 bucks and about an hour actual work time to make 10 pounds of powder.
With this kit and a ball mill you can make every kind of black powder from superfine meal powder to 2FA lift powder. Be sure you have screens with the right mesh size for the granulation of black powder you want to make. A 100-mesh screen will work for meal while a 4-12 mesh screen will make your lift.
 

Zonie

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I just removed 2 posts from this thread. Appearently the authors didn't read the forum rules. The rules that cover this are shown below:

41: Participants may not post any material regarding illegal activities, illegal firearms, or the manufacture of any material or hardware that is illegal in the United States. This includes, but is not limited to; the manufacture of explosives, instructions on where to find materials for making explosives, altering of weapons to make them illegal, etc.

42: Members may not discuss the making of black powder or post links to web sites that offer instructions for making black powder.
 

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