Goex vs. Swiss in Pedersoli .45 Frontier Rifle

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PastorB

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I posted this in the General Muzzleloading section a few days ago. I copied and pasted it here, as there seems to be some interest in chronograph results.

Took my Pedersoli Frontier flint in .45 to the range today and fired over the chrono. Used Goex 3f and Swiss 3f, both new unopened cans kept is pristine conditions. The Swiss has given me higher velocity in revolvers, but not anything dramatic. However, in the 39" barrel of my Pedersoli, the Swiss showed a LOT more ummph. All loads were measured volumetrically, using 3f, a.440 rb, and .010 linen patch lubed with whatever Ox-Yoke puts on them. I did not measure group sizes, as I am not a great shot with a flintlock. I can hit clay birds around 70 yards, which is good enough for me and what I do. I had zero failures to fire for 35 shots (7 five shot strings) and only one slight delay. I cleaned the barrel after each 5 shot string, but did nothing else, including knapping the flint. Used the same powder in the pan as the main charge, here are the average velocities. The patches I found could have been reused, no evidence of burning.

Goex 3f. Swiss 3f

50 gr. 1442 fps no shots

60 gr. 1557 fps 1814 fps

75 gr. 1694 fps. 2090 fps

90 gr. 1967. fps 2206 fps
 
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That's a pretty substantial difference across the board! Gotta wonder, it seems as though this would have to be accomplished via higher pressure? Comparing 3f to 3f I would think that burn rates should be similar enough to be a marginal factor. I certainly wouldn't expect the Swiss 3f to burn that dramatic slower as to have burn of longer enough duration to make that big if a difference.... Almost has to be higher overall pressure?

Very interesting though... Thanks for sharing.
 

hanshi

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Those are very interesting results. I'm a little bit surprised the Swiss wasn't as remarkable in the revolver. In one of my .45 rifles 70 grains of Goex 3F gave around 1800 fps; haven't chronographed the Swiss 3F yet and haven't chronographed my second .45 rifle for comparison.
 
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Swiss is known/said to be "hotter" than Goex in many circles, and your data seems to confirm that. They say you can generally use less Swiss than Goex and get an equivalent bang. This generally means less fouling since fouling is directly related to the volume of powder burned.
 

kemart17

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I posted this in the General Muzzleloading section a few days ago. I copied and pasted it here, as there seems to be some interest in chronograph results.

Took my Pedersoli Frontier flint in .45 to the range today and fired over the chrono. Used Goex 3f and Swiss 3f, both new unopened cans kept is pristine conditions. The Swiss has given me higher velocity in revolvers, but not anything dramatic. However, in the 39" barrel of my Pedersoli, the Swiss showed a LOT more ummph. All loads were measured volumetrically, using 3f, a.440 rb, and .010 linen patch lubed with whatever Ox-Yoke puts on them. I did not measure group sizes, as I am not a great shot with a flintlock. I can hit clay birds around 70 yards, which is good enough for me and what I do. I had zero failures to fire for 35 shots (7 five shot strings) and only one slight delay. I cleaned the barrel after each 5 shot string, but did nothing else, including knapping the flint. Used the same powder in the pan as the main charge, here are the average velocities. The patches I found could have been reused, no evidence of burning.

Goex 3f. Swiss 3f

50 gr. 1442 fps no shots

60 gr. 1557 fps 1814 fps

75 gr. 1694 fps. 2090 fps

90 gr. 1967. fps 2206 fps
that is a bigger differance then i would have expected. thanks for sharing
 

Bushfire

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I too was blown away by swiss and will use nothing else now. With 110gr Wano 2F I was POA at 50m, with 100gr Swiss 2F I'm POA at 100m.

In my 54 flinter
 

dave951

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Been telling folks Swiss is the stuff. Next I'd like to see the same comparison between Swiss and Old Eynsford (a Goex product). Putting Swiss up against standard Goex is hardly fair, think F1 car against a Yugo.
 

dave951

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Good info but what kind can be found to buy NOW.
Powder is not unobtainium for those who bother to search for it. I bought a half case and 2k caps last month. If you're looking in a brick n mortar place, you are setting yourself up for disappointment.
 
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i have no idea what my 45 early Virginias velocity is with 55gr. of 3F goex, i just know it will shoot the same hole at 50yds, over and over again, that is all i really care about,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,;))
 

PastorB

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I post velocity information strictly for the curious. My go-to load in about everything from .40 to .58, except my shotguns, is 60 grains of whatever powder is handy. I save my real black for use in flintlocks, and shoot mostly Pyrodex, which is easy to get and half the cost of 777, in everything else. I read many years ago (please don't ask for a quotation, it was 40+ years ago in a book!) that fellas back "in the day" loaded just enough powder to get the right "crack", and that was considered a fine load. I'm assuming that meant breaking the sound barrier, even though I doubt they understood the reason why it "cracked". Another method of obtaining a proper load was to cover a ball, placed in the palm of your hand, with powder until it was not visible. I have done this as a test, and it is more consistent than you would think, and yields a result of just over 1 grain of powder per bore diameter. About 65 grains with a .570 ball, for example.

The modern crowd, who read a lot of magazines and forums, say that you need 1000 ft./lbs. on target to cleanly harvest deer sized game. My favorite load for kids in my cheap .50 Traditions Deer Hunters is 60 grains of powder, and a PRB. It goes just over 1200fps (crack!) and gets around 550 ft./lbs. at the muzzle. It kills deer just fine.
 

dave951

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The modern crowd, who read a lot of magazines and forums, say that you need 1000 ft./lbs. on target to cleanly harvest deer sized game. My favorite load for kids in my cheap .50 Traditions Deer Hunters is 60 grains of powder, and a PRB. It goes just over 1200fps (crack!) and gets around 550 ft./lbs. at the muzzle. It kills deer just fine.
Exactly. The best load is one that is accurate, you can shoot accurately, and can penetrate to the vital regions. A run of the mill 50cal with PRB set up properly will put any bambi on this continent in the freezer.
 
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