GOEX Update (again)

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dave951

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Guys, in business there is a real phenomena called "barrier to entry". Basically it is the hurdles you have to clear in order to operate a business. Regulations are a large part, but so is capital investment, insurance, infrastructure, market conditions, and competition. For another company to start up and produce black powder in competition with an established brand name like Goex, they'd have to get insurance, a factory, raw materials, a labor force, and the capital to stay running till turning a profit. They'd have an uphill fight with all you dyed in the wool Goex guys. Given how many reacted when "Goex" went out of business, at least with Hogdon, there is a serious case of brand loyalty for any startup to deal with. Think I'm offbase, look at the resistance to going over to Schuetzen and Swiss. Next is the issue of regulations and insurance. I looked into what it took to become a powder distributor and it's not an easy thing to do.

So what's the path forward? Sell the brand name, done, sold to Estes. All Estes has to do is procure the machinery to make powder and have a place to do it. Not many people want a gunpowder factory near them, so that might be a tad difficult for them but for a complete startup, darn near impossible. Next they have to make powder and avoid the mistakes that Goex made in the past with accidents. Accidents make insurance costs go up, fast and they attract the attention of OSHA. Couple that with even more regulations and OSHA getting involved, and again, darn near impossible for a startup to compete. The only saving grace here in favor of Estes administering the Goex brand is to modernize and upgrade equipment and avoid accidents to keep production costs as low as possible in order to be profitable but all that takes is capital investment. And capital investment dictates a return on that investment to shareholders.

Is the future of Goex assured? Hardly. I'll wait and see.
 
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No shareholders in Estes.

I know quite a few people from around that Penrose area. They would be thrilled to have a BP mill there. They'd turn it into a tourist attraction. 😀
 

HighUintas

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I think Utah needs to revive the Green River powder plant. There used to be green river rifle works here, we have the iconic green river Henry's fork on the north side.

But yes, I'm eagerly awaiting for a reopening of goex!
 
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Exactly how many battleships are on active duty? Answer- none. So I don't think they are consuming much black powder. There are 4 Iowa class battleships that could be recommissioned and returned to active service- USS Iowa, New Jersey, Wisconsin and Missouri. There are a further 4 battleships that have been turned into museum ships- USS Texas, Alabama, North Carolina, and Massachusetts. Of those, due to maintenance issues, they will never return to service. All the remaining ships with the BB classification have been sunk or scrapped.
I was on the Re-commissioning crew of the USS New Jersey BB62 in 1982, Served onboard 5/82-5/84. We used mixed bag powder to fire 5"/38 and 16" Main Battery. It was a great ship to serve on and we had that Engineering plant streaming 11 months straight on or '83-'84 cruise, including our time in Beirut. Here are a few pics from my time onboard. I served in E Division. The Big J is in Camden now.
 

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Kappa

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I’m hopeful production begins, our 4h leader is trying to get black powder and western heritage added to the 4 h shooting sports. It would be a selling point if powder was available more easily.
 
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The navys big guns on the battleships still use black powder for priming charges. They are the main customer for black powder.
I served on the Big J when they Reagan brought them back into service . We were the first one to get re commissioned in 1982. The Iowa, Mighty MO and Wisconsin followed us into service throughout the 80's. All decommissioned in the early 90's.
 

Siringo

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Guys, in business there is a real phenomena called "barrier to entry". Basically it is the hurdles you have to clear in order to operate a business. Regulations are a large part, but so is capital investment, insurance, infrastructure, market conditions, and competition. For another company to start up and produce black powder in competition with an established brand name like Goex, they'd have to get insurance, a factory, raw materials, a labor force, and the capital to stay running till turning a profit. They'd have an uphill fight with all you dyed in the wool Goex guys. Given how many reacted when "Goex" went out of business, at least with Hogdon, there is a serious case of brand loyalty for any startup to deal with. Think I'm offbase, look at the resistance to going over to Schuetzen and Swiss. Next is the issue of regulations and insurance. I looked into what it took to become a powder distributor and it's not an easy thing to do.

So what's the path forward? Sell the brand name, done, sold to Estes. All Estes has to do is procure the machinery to make powder and have a place to do it. Not many people want a gunpowder factory near them, so that might be a tad difficult for them but for a complete startup, darn near impossible. Next they have to make powder and avoid the mistakes that Goex made in the past with accidents. Accidents make insurance costs go up, fast and they attract the attention of OSHA. Couple that with even more regulations and OSHA getting involved, and again, darn near impossible for a startup to compete. The only saving grace here in favor of Estes administering the Goex brand is to modernize and upgrade equipment and avoid accidents to keep production costs as low as possible in order to be profitable but all that takes is capital investment. And capital investment dictates a return on that investment to shareholders.

Is the future of Goex assured? Hardly. I'll wait and see.
Spot on!
 

Siringo

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I was on the Re-commissioning crew of the USS New Jersey BB62 in 1982, Served onboard 5/82-5/84. We used mixed bag powder to fire 5"/38 and 16" Main Battery. It was a great ship to serve on and we had that Engineering plant streaming 11 months straight on or '83-'84 cruise, including our time in Beirut. Here are a few pics from my time onboard. I served in E Division. The Big J is in Camden now.
Why is it called a 5”/38???
 

Willy

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Why is it called a 5”/38???
Retired Navy Chief here.

5" bore, 38 caliber. In Naval guns however caliber refers more to the ration between bore size and the length of the barrel.

All of the Iowa class battleships are museum ships now. The Navy no longer has any in what little is left of the reserve fleets. To put it simply, all the battleships were just too manpower intensive to operate. Especially in the post Cold War drawdown. I was in Enlisted Manpower for the Navy at the time and it was a struggle for us to man up the ships that went to Desert Shield/Storm. Any ship not going was heavily "borrowed from" to fill open spots in the crews of the ships that were going. The only reason that the battleships were even in service at the time was the politicians forcing them on the active duty Navy to build Reagan's "600 Ship Navy". Unlike more modern ships, the engineering plants had almost no automation and required someone to manually almost everything in them. That's why they were decomissioned right after the first Iraq war. We couldn't afford the manpower to keep them going.
 
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Retired Navy Chief here.

5" bore, 38 caliber. In Naval guns however caliber refers more to the ration between bore size and the length of the barrel.

All of the Iowa class battleships are museum ships now. The Navy no longer has any in what little is left of the reserve fleets. To put it simply, all the battleships were just too manpower intensive to operate. Especially in the post Cold War drawdown. I was in Enlisted Manpower for the Navy at the time and it was a struggle for us to man up the ships that went to Desert Shield/Storm. Any ship not going was heavily "borrowed from" to fill open spots in the crews of the ships that were going. The only reason that the battleships were even in service at the time was the politicians forcing them on the active duty Navy to build Reagan's "600 Ship Navy". Unlike more modern ships, the engineering plants had almost no automation and required someone to manually almost everything in them. That's why they were decomissioned right after the first Iraq war. We couldn't afford the manpower to keep them going.
I was an EM3 4x2 hitch (80-84), We had 600lb Babcock and Wilcox steam plant with 4 screws and 4 main engines cranking out 212k HP at flank bell. (33 knts) . You seem to know a lot about the Iowa class BB's but didn't serve on one. When we were in Beirut we fired 288 16" rounds and took out Syrian training camps in the Shouf mountains. 7 hours at my battle station. I belong to Beirut veterans of America. Go tell the Marines from the 22nd, 24th MAU that the Big J was obsolete. They will tell you a different story.
 
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