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Carbon 6

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Makes you look at industrial farming a whole different way doesn't it ?

Notice how they keep talking about how crucial <30% moisture is for application otherwise the roundup becomes locked in the plant ? Now you know one reason why there are 14,000+ lawsuits against the product.
One of the videos also mentioned Gramoxone (Paraquat) used for burndown. That stuff is so toxic that exposure to it has a 70% death rate.
 

Eutycus

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I never walked behind a mule but have spent many hours on an open cab tractor. I thoroughly enjoyed most of it. Until the late 80s when the guy I used to work for got into minimum tillage and "chemicals". I'm sure he saved some bucks by going with the new-fangled way but I preferred the "simple way of life"( no chemicals).
 

Eutycus

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I think Paraquat and the Agent Orange they used in Viet Nam were the same thing.
 

Carbon 6

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According to the USDA, organic corn yields average 41 bushels per acre less than conventional yields, organic wheat yields to be 9 bushels per acre less, and organic soybean yields to be 12 bushels per acre less.
 

Carbon 6

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I think Paraquat and the Agent Orange they used in Viet Nam were the same thing.
The two active ingredients in the Agent Orange herbicide combination were equal amounts of 2,4-dichlorophenoxyacetic acid (2,4-D) and 2,4,5-trichlorophenoxyacetic acid (2,4,5-T), which contained traces of 2,3,7,8-tetrachlorodibenzo-p-dioxin (TCDD). The dioxin TCDD was an unwanted byproduct of herbicide production.
 

Loyalist Dave

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organic corn yields average 41 bushels per acre less than conventional yields,...,and organic soybean yields to be 12 bushels per acre less.
I'm glad my family only does corn and/or soybeans, and that Roundup doesn't work so well on corn nor soybeans, so that it's rarely part of that farming.
Besides it's just an added expense.

I've also been told since I posted this that the independent wheat farmers can get squeezed out by the practice of desiccation.

IF Big Agg wants to squeeze out a much smaller operation, they simply desiccate earlier than they should as they can absorb the loss from the lower crop yield at one location, due to their size. BUT this then gluts the grain market near the smaller, family operation, and the price of the grain drops at market, and thus the small guy who harvests with a max yield and especially if he doesn't desiccate, he can't make enough $$$ to cover his costs that year. Do it enough years in a row, and he's done....guess who's first in line to buy his land ???

GEEESH the greed, and lack of compassion. I don't see why Big Agg couldn't team up with the smaller operations and announce when they and the little guys should harvest..., get a good, but not the "absolute best" price at market for everybody. The way kids aren't going into farming...., the land will belong to Big Agg soon enough, without forcing a guy to be a failure. 😔

There's a special place in Hades for such thinkers.....

LD
 

Carbon 6

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I'm glad my family only does corn and/or soybeans, and that Roundup doesn't work so well on corn nor soybeans, so that it's rarely part of that farming.
Besides it's just an added expense.
Most corn and soybeans have been genetically modified to be Roundup resistant.
 

mingo

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Friend of mine is a retired food chemist of some note.
She says there have always been folks who reacted to Gluten.
In old times, they just dealt with it and kept moving.
Most folks in the past had a lot fewer choices or abilities regarding varieties of foods.
 

David Veale

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The problem with laying peoples issues with gluten and grains on modern pesticides is that there is ample evidence of these causing humans problems relatively soon after the introduction of intentional grain agriculture. No pesticides then. Well,,, not man made anyway. Grains and legumes contain their own pesticides, and that is part of what causes the problem. There is no evidence we need any type of grain nutritionally, nor dairy and most humans globally are lactose intolerant to some degree. If we don't need it, and it is designed to limit its consumption by those that do eat it, no wonder it can cause problems.
Regarding "lactose intolerance"... Most of the people who believe they are lactose intolerant are in fact not. They're intolerant of pasteurized/homogenized milk, both processes of which alter the chemical structure (pasteurization destroys much of the nutritional value, and homogenization is believed to be a trigger for atherosclerosis). The figure I've seen is about 85% of lactose intolerant individuals not actually being lactose intolerant. I ran a small dairy producing raw milk for years, and had numerous customers who were unable to drink regular pasteurized milk but could drink the raw milk with no issues whatsoever.

I'm a firm believer in pesticides being at the root of many allergies and autoimmune disorders. My wife's family had a conventional (i.e. chemically dependent) blueberry farm. She's got loads of allergies, but when tested for blueberries (which are very heavily sprayed), it was off the charts compared to everything else.

Pesticides like glyphosate work directly to destroy immune systems. The biological pathway which glyphosate blocks that Monsanto likes to tout as "not existing in the human body" is only half true. While it doesn't exist in the purely human body, it *does* absolutely exist in the bacteria which comprise 80%+ of our immune system. Monsanto actually holds a patent for glyphosate's anti-microbial properties. Combine glyphosate with the BT toxin that many GMO crops are engineered to produce, and you have a real humdinger for creating autoimmune diseases. Lupus, arthritis, allergies, food intolerances, MS... you name it. Then throw in a little atrazine (used on nearly all corn and some small grains as well), and you can add breast & prostate cancer to your mix. Half the stuff used in the US is banned in the rest of the world, but here corruption rules, and people suffer without knowing why. To top it off, we all run the risk of personal bankruptcy once we get our serious health issues -- making us yet another corporate profit center. Most bankruptcies are health related -- and most of the people declaring bankruptcy *have* health insurance.
 

Loyalist Dave

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Friend of mine is a retired food chemist of some note.
She says there have always been folks who reacted to Gluten.
Never suggested otherwise, but there has been a spike, in the number of cases, and it's well beyond the possibility of "we're better at diagnosis now" scenario. One of the keys to using Roundup for desiccation, is the moisture being below 30% in the grain. IF folks ignore that or have a poor sampling method, then Roundup is getting trapped in the grain.

LD
 

Carbon 6

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Never suggested otherwise, but there has been a spike, in the number of cases, and it's well beyond the possibility of "we're better at diagnosis now" scenario. One of the keys to using Roundup for desiccation, is the moisture being below 30% in the grain. IF folks ignore that or have a poor sampling method, then Roundup is getting trapped in the grain.

LD
Just to play "devils advocate" for a moment, as bad as roundup is, ( and its worse than most realize) It's better than grain infected with fusarium, ergot or other mold toxins.
Some of the reasons for using it are well justified, but it still poses an ethical dilemma.
 

Loyalist Dave

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Just to play "devils advocate" for a moment, as bad as roundup is, ( and its worse than most realize) It's better than grain infected with fusarium, ergot or other mold toxins.
Some of the reasons for using it are well justified, but it still poses an ethical dilemma.
No argument there, the very first video pointed out some very good reasons to use the stuff.

DDT when properly used, is an amazing chemical to combat the mosquitoes that are the vector for Yellow Fever, Malaria, Zika, Equine Encephalitus, etc. BUT the use of DDT was not controlled, and any person could obtain it and use it, from Joe Homeowner, to the Hobby Farmer, to the folks with a huge insect vector problem..., and it got out of hand and caused a lot of damage. Today, it isn't used in areas where literally there about 10,000 fatalities due to mosquito vector diseases, because of the past misuse.

So glyphosate does have some applications, but... IF the user ignores the 30% threshold to apply it to grain, for whatever reason (and WHO determines that it's OK to be used...there's no official oversite....you don't need a permit to desiccate your wheat crop) then the stuff gets into the grain and into the food supply.

LD
 

Srf

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Actually I think it's the grain farming corporations, not so much the individual farmers, no matter how "large" an operation, and who have incorporated themselves, that's the problem. For example, Joe, the friend of my father with whom my family's 600 acres in Illinois is farmed, farms thousands of acres..., corn and soybeans. He'd never use chemicals to ripen a crop, even if we grew wheat..., but....,

I've heard that such very large corporations have been applying diluted Roundup herbicide to accelerate the "ripening" of the wheat. They can then set a schedule of when certain areas will be harvested, since they "know" the crop will be ready and thus save $$$ on transportation of the machines and fuel costs..., and that this practice and similar such stuff and the public's gluten intolerance on a high scale, coincided.

LD
My daughter has gluten issues so this information is very interesting.
 

Carbon 6

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there's no official oversite....you don't need a permit to desiccate your wheat crop) then the stuff gets into the grain and into the food supply.
That's not completely accurate.
Applicators have to be licensed, and I'm pretty sure the end user tests the grain before milling for human consumption.
But, there are usually acceptable limits. I highly doubt the limit for glyphosate is zero. would have to look it up.
I've also seen applicators break the law, there's really no enforcement.
 

Eutycus

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I don't know how it is lately but that license to put out herbicides used to be pretty easy to obtain. I'm almost sure some of these "applicators" weren't even U.S. citizens with an even fair use of the English language, if you get my drift.
 

Carbon 6

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I'm almost sure some of these "applicators" weren't even U.S. citizens with an even fair use of the English language, if you get my drift.
Can't say as I have ever seen anything like that. The liability and risk of loss would be simply too high, Most farmers that I see have crops sprayed by custom applicators. A sprayer costs hundreds of thousands of dollars, and their customer base is limited. Too risky.
 
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