Function of a patented breech?

[granth]

So I was just reading Ned Robert's book called "The Muzzleloading Caplock Rifle", and Mr. Roberts was talking about how a "patented breech" allows for more reliable ignition as opposed to a normal breech plug. What exactly is a patented breech, and how does it work in comparison to a normal breech plug?

 

[springfield art]

A lot of people would also like to know. I look forward to seeing replies here.

 

[Stykbow]

There’s a good thread on this that went on fairly recently. Type in “patent breech” in the search function and it should pull it up. Some pretty good discussion and info in it.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

There’s a good thread on this that went on fairly recently ...

Right here: https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/why-the-patent-breech-design.145628/

 

[vibraphonusrex]

I’ve searched and can’t find a definitive answer to my question. I have a pretty new Pedersoli Kentucky percussion rifle, in .45 caliber. Does this have a patent breech? I, too, will sometimes have misfires after some shooting, and I have been swabbing after several shots, if not after each shot.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

Simple! A patent breech uses a'sub-caliber' bore through the breech plug.

• Place a long ramrod down the barrel that has a bore-sized jag on it
• Place blue tape or other on the rod when the jag seats against the breech face
• Remove rod
• Lay along-side the barrel and place the tape in the same position where it was before, just meeting the mouth of the muzzle
• Look at the breech-end of the rod in relation to the center of the drum or the clean out screw
• Assess against the picture ...

Use a smaller caliber brush or other accessory to clean out a patent breech.

 

[akroguy]

They exist to be annoying. I won't own any more of them. Just my two cents.

 

[longcruise]

I'm not positive on this but I think the "patent" thing arises out of a breech system designed and patented by a man named Nock in 1757.

Plan drawing, full exact size, Nock's patent breech - Track of the Wolf

So, similar designs both cap and flint have come to be called "patent" breeches.

You can tell by the opinion expressed here that they aren't all an improvement .

 

[Steve Martin]

"Patent breech" = a solution, looking for a problem.

 

[Buckskinquin]

Patent breeches are also referred to as an ante chamber. Not knowing you have one can be very frustrating. As fouling builds up in the chamber and drum, you will begin to have misfires. If you have a screw on the end of your drum, you can run a stiff wire or small drill through it to reach the chamber. To clean this ante chamber, you either have to flush it with hot water and soap, or use a 22 caliber bore brush. Field cleaning, use the drill and brush, at home, flushing with water. Get an endoscope and use it. Can’t tell you how many people I have met that didn’t realize their gun had one. It’s also frustrating that the gun manufacturers don’t explain its function and cleaning requirements. Here’s a picture of my Hatfield 50 cal. patent breech. Pedersoli bought Hatfield and for years built many of the components for their rifles.

 

[waksupi]

I won't own a gun with a patent breech, and have turned down customers when they requested them. They cause more misfires than any other thing, in my opinion.

 

[Stykbow]

I’ve never owned or shot anything other than a patent breech ML. Never had a problem that wasn’t my own doing.

 

[dave951]

Patent breech works great.... till it doesn't. It's a fouling problem waiting to happen and the only truly effective way to clean one that I've found is an ultrasonic cleaner.

 

[PathfinderNC]

Of all the guns I have used or seen used, those with a patent breech were the ones having all the ignition problems. Just sayin’ .

 

[user 48702]

I have a Pedersoli Frontier Flintlock in .45 caliber and wanted a .32 caliber barrel, but none were available. I knew that Pedersoli turns out their parts on a CNC, so I contacted Jason at Rice Barrels to see if he could install a metric threaded plug in one of his barrels if I could get one and the answer was yes. So I called Mr. Beauchamp at Flintlocks Etc., and ordered a replacement .32 caliber breech plug for the Frontier, then shipped the plug to Rice. A few days later, Jason called and said the plug's patent breech was so small that he suggested milling it off and installing the plug with a flat face. I had to give him measurements as to where the touch hole was going to be in relation to the breech end of the barrel so as to make sure the face of the plug had the proper set-back in relation to the touch hole. When I received the barrel, it was a drop-in fit, just had to drill a touch hole and finish the barrel, works perfect if I do my part.

 

[Old Hawkeye]

I’ve searched and can’t find a definitive answer to my question. I have a pretty new Pedersoli Kentucky percussion rifle, in .45 caliber. Does this have a patent breech? I, too, will sometimes have misfires after some shooting, and I have been swabbing after several shots, if not after each shot.

Sometimes swabbing after each shot can be the cause of the patent breech becoming fouled & creating ignition failure. You are pushing all the crud down into the breech with a wet patch, then putting powder on top of it. Just food for thought.

 

[ronaldrothb49]

On a flintlock I see no advantage. As others have pointed out they are Harder to clean. In my experience they actually slow down the ignition. On a percussion gun the snail used on most patent breech's is a stronger set up than a drum and nipple especially when using heavy charges.

 

[tenngun]

I have owned a few. Yes they are harder to clean. All my builds have been flat, and mostly flint. When I had them I was pretty inexperienced, but learned. They do take an extra step, that I learned, and maybe it made my loading technique a little better.
They are not appropriate to the guns I shoot.
However I notice that when patten breaches came in to general use barrels on American, English and French guns, that had been long, started moving to short.
If someone has a chrno that might be a good experiment. Try a flat breech short gun against a pattan breech and see if charge to charge there is similar velocity, or if the patten gets a little more bang for the buck

 

[smoothshooter]

I won't own a gun with a patent breech, and have turned down customers when they requested them. They cause more misfires than any other thing, in my opinion.

Could not agree more!

 

[longcruise]

Sometimes swabbing after each shot can be the cause of the patent breech becoming fouled & creating ignition failure. You are pushing all the crud down into the breech with a wet patch, then putting powder on top of it. Just food for thought.

This is something that I noticed long ago. Referring here to percussion guns with a snail type breech. I concluded that a patch not wet enough tended to fail to absorb and hold fouling and pushed some into the flash channel. Then there's the flip side of being too wet and leaving moisture in the flash channel.

I don't own any Pedersoli rifles but it just seems to me that over the years the complaints about this issue have been particularly high with the Pedersoli products. I've seen remarks by those who have disassembled them to the effect that the channels in the breech plugs are surprisingly small.