I recently purchased a replacement frizzen for a L&R large English lock as the original has a severe divot in it that I haven't been able to grind out. The new frizzen has to be tempered. How do I do that? I am not a metal worker. Can a lay person perform this operation without special tools?
-
This community needs YOUR help today. We rely 100% on Supporting Memberships to fund our efforts. With the ever increasing fees of everything, we need help. We need more Supporting Members, today. Please invest back into this community. I will ship a few decals too in addition to all the account perks you get.
Sign up here: https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/account/upgrades -
Friends, our 2nd Amendment rights are always under attack and the NRA has been a constant for decades in helping fight that fight.
We have partnered with the NRA to offer you a discount on membership and Muzzleloading Forum gets a small percentage too of each membership, so you are supporting both the NRA and us.
Use this link to sign up please; https://membership.nra.org/recruiters/join/XR045103
Frizzen Tempering?
- Thread starter Grimord
- Start date
Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:
rich pierce
70 Cal.
So, it is not hardened and tempered? You are sure?
If you’ve never hardened and tempered steel, this is not the right opportunity to learn the process.
ronaldrothb49
45 Cal.
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2021
- Messages
- 672
- Reaction score
- 1,136
I do believe L & R parts come finished ready to use.
search function is your Friend. Tons of posts on this topic.
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2020
- Messages
- 6,830
- Reaction score
- 18,809
- Location
- On the Border in Idaho looking at BC
run a sharp file across the face. that will tell you quickly if it is hardened.
I bought the frizzen from TOW and in the caption with the part # it said the frizzen will require "tempering". So my assumption (I know, not a good idea) is that the frizzen is not hardened. I got the part in the mail yesterday, and it appears to be "as cast" so I think tempering will be required.
Have hardened and tempered a few frizzens and all sparked profusely . Took a section of pipe that a frizzen could fit in, attached an end cap that had 4-5 1/4 dia holes drilled through . The frizzen was wired through the pivot hole, stuck in the pipe, heated until orange red w/ a Mapp Gas torch and dunked in motor oil. The frizzen then was put in my kitchen stove's oven at 375 degrees for an hour. When cool. was polished and installed.
I did verify the settings of the oven w/ a thermal bridge. ....Fred
I did verify the settings of the oven w/ a thermal bridge. ....Fred
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2005
- Messages
- 5,010
- Reaction score
- 9,945
Hi,
L&R frizzens are SAE 1095 steel. At one time they made them from steel with 1% carbon by weight. Heat it to bright reddish orange with a MAPP gas torch and quench in warm canola oil or quenching oil. Motor oil stinks badly and canola will cool the steel faster. Clean it up and then heat it to 375 degrees for 1 hour in an oven. Finally, polish up the toe of the frizzen until it is bright and shiny and use a mini torch or propane torch to slowly heat the toe until it turns blue. Have a little spray bottle of water handy to cool the rest of the frizzen if the color starts to migrate up to the pan cover and frizzen face. However, before doing any of this, make sure the frizzen fits well on the pan because it is much easier to file it to fit before any heat treatment.
dave
L&R frizzens are SAE 1095 steel. At one time they made them from steel with 1% carbon by weight. Heat it to bright reddish orange with a MAPP gas torch and quench in warm canola oil or quenching oil. Motor oil stinks badly and canola will cool the steel faster. Clean it up and then heat it to 375 degrees for 1 hour in an oven. Finally, polish up the toe of the frizzen until it is bright and shiny and use a mini torch or propane torch to slowly heat the toe until it turns blue. Have a little spray bottle of water handy to cool the rest of the frizzen if the color starts to migrate up to the pan cover and frizzen face. However, before doing any of this, make sure the frizzen fits well on the pan because it is much easier to file it to fit before any heat treatment.
dave
Rich is SPOT ON with his comment
. The process of hardening & tempering a part is not difficult ONCE you learn it and it does vary depending on the type of HARDENABLE steel you are using. When you say that the part needs "to be tempered" it is understood that the part has been already hardened. Here-in lies the problem, if the part has not been tempered soon after it was hardened stress fractures will developed internally and lead the part to fail (break). With this in mind I would venture a guess and say that your replacement frizzen has not been hardened or tempered
.F.Y.I. -- SAE AISI 1095 Steel, High Carbon Steel Heat Treat, Properties & Hardness -- this is good reading on 1095 high carbon steel and you will learn something new.
Last edited:
SlidePicker
40 Cal
Why did you put it inside a pipe to heat it? Did you put in bone meal, old leather, or such to case harden it?
rich pierce
70 Cal.
I use a little brick cubby to hold and concentrate the heat when heating something the size of a frizzen.
This sound like it might be out of my league. If it was a wood project, I would be in my element, but this is all foreign to me. I am not familiar with Mapp gas. Where do I get it, and do I need to have any special tools to use it?
Yes. They are cast and should be ready to go. Call L&R to get their advice.
rich pierce
70 Cal.
I manage to do it with propane by using a brick cubby to hold the heat. Takes a few minutes.
I'll give them a call, but the TOW site says the part is "as cast", so that means it would need to be "tempered"; Right?.
Kevin Houlihan
36 Cl.
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2018
- Messages
- 62
- Reaction score
- 69
Grimord -
Mapp gas or more correctly Mapp Gas Pro is readily available at hardware stores and places like Home Depot and Lowes. It's in a yellow cylinder and comes as a kit with a nozzle/tip and not very expensive. Follow the advice given by Vaino, Rich Pierce and Dave Person and you'll be OK. If an idiot like me can successfully make a frizzen spring following their advice, I'm sure you can harden a frizzen. I'm in central CT btw.
Good luck,
Kevin Houlihan
Mapp gas or more correctly Mapp Gas Pro is readily available at hardware stores and places like Home Depot and Lowes. It's in a yellow cylinder and comes as a kit with a nozzle/tip and not very expensive. Follow the advice given by Vaino, Rich Pierce and Dave Person and you'll be OK. If an idiot like me can successfully make a frizzen spring following their advice, I'm sure you can harden a frizzen. I'm in central CT btw.
Good luck,
Kevin Houlihan
ronaldrothb49
45 Cal.
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2021
- Messages
- 672
- Reaction score
- 1,136
As cast means it would have to be cleaned up, drilled, polished and then fitted to the lock. Then you would need to harden and then temper it. Call L & R they are good about supporting their products
Last edited:
Folks at L&R are really easy to work with. Don't hesitate to give them a call. If original part has a flaw I'm sure they will replace it.
