Frizzen issues

[Don Steele]

At the range yesterday with a T/C "Hawken" style flintlock.
The rifle has the newer style lock. Over time, the frizzen has gotten gouged once in a while. When it looked too bad, I would use some emery cloth and smooth it back out. Here's the problem: it's been working just fine until yesterday when the frizzen just quit sparking. Tried 3 different flints with no change. When I got home I put a new frizzen on the lock and got 100% ignition of the prime.
I'm wondering if smoothing out the other frizzen has removed a hardened "skin" on the face of it..???
A anyone else ever have something like this???
Thanks.

 

[VTdeerhunter]

Hi Don...you could be right, some frizzens are not as hard as others, similar to the files that are sold today, they are mostly case hardened mild steel...once you get through the hard part they are junk. Hard to say without seeing your frisson and doing a hardness test on it, does a file cut a groove in it? Or is it too hard to file?

 

[MSW]

odd to hear of this problem. it is exactly the same symptomology which I experienced in 1982 when I bought a used T/C Renegade... it was pretty well 'beat up' and (being a used gun) I have o idea how many time it had been fired, or with what level of care and maintenance... I tried rehardening it to no avail, so I went back to the store where I bought it and the fellow had a bunch of spare parts, and he just gave me a frizzen, which worked for many years and we moved around a good bit, and the frizzen wore thin again... same effect ... went to the local blackpowder place and asked if they could reharden it, and he looked at it and said, no- it really can't be rehardened, but I can put a bit of hacksaw blade on it for you, which will cost you thirty bucks, or I can replace it for ten.


duh


now, he said, this isn't a T/c part, but it should work ... it was a Layman frizzen, which worked fine until I asked the T/C people if I could get a spare, and they said to just send in the lock, which I did on a Monday and Thursday, I had a whole new lock ... i'll keep my eyes out for another frizzen ...

they are occasionally on e- bay and other similar sites.

good luck with your problem - it should be a pretty easy fix.

:thumbsup:

 

[Don Steele]

Shooting the T/C spare frizzen today. 25 rds. And ZERO problems. Rightnour offers a Lyman frizzen which has been modified to fit the T/C lock. I went ahead and ordered one this morning since there's (apparently) no telling when this one from T/C may fail as well. By all reports I've seen, the Lyman frizzen is a better product than the original T/C.

 

[SgtErv]

I've had pretty similar issues. We discussed a lot of different variables in another thread titles "Frizzen Gouging." Lots of good info there

Best of luck, as it can be a frustrating issue

 

[rafterob]

That is exactly what you have done. Nothing wrong with gouges in the frizzen. They all get them. Now, if you are getting deep gouges then there is a problem with the geometry of how the flint is hitting the frizzen.

 

[Obi-Wan Cannoli]

I use Kasenit surface hardening compound for steel when a jim chambers frizzen stops throwing good sparks. I don't know how it will work on a tc frizzen

 

[LRB]

Chambers frizzens are 1095 steel. If properly heat treated, and properly treated in general, they will not lose hardness.

 

[Obi-Wan Cannoli]

that would explain why my kasenit has been collecting dust on my shelf for years then, what other uses is it good for since I am partial to jim chambers?

 

[Zonie]

One thing you can do with your Kasenit is to harden the heads and slots on the screws your guns use.

As most have found, the screws that hold Cap & Ball revolvers, sidelock lock screws, tang screws and other screws that may need to be removed for maintenance.

Hardening the surfaces on a slotted screw will keep it from getting get dinged up when it is removed.

As most folks who have used Kasenit know, the hardened surface is a dull gray after quenching.

That looks pretty ugly for a working screw that is right out there in plain sight but there is a nice fix for the problem.

After a light buffing some Cold Blue can be used to darken it or better yet, by slowly applying heat to the cleaned up and lightly buffed screw head it will turn yellow, then brown, purple and finally a rich dark beautiful blue.

Once it has reached this dark blue, quenching it in oil will finish the job.

(For those who are interested, this heating tempers the steel but it won't soften it.

 

[Obi-Wan Cannoli]

Thank you for the tip. When I bought my first Jim Chambers lock getting into the hobby about 4 or 5 years ago, I was really persistent about getting every possibility under the sun items, the man said a Chambers frizzen would hold 20 years of daily use, but I was stubborn at the time and was worried about 20 years plus one day. Good to see there is some good use for the kasenit.

 

[M. De Land]

I can go with you to straw ( 450 F.) color draw Jim but in my opinion dark blue (600 F.) is to much and the case will be softer than when it was quenched.
Also heat blue is notoriously thin and non durable.
A much better bet is draw to straw, glass bead and rust blue or brown.
I draw the case on receivers I color harden at 350-400F. for one hour directly after the quench and so far no cracks have developed and they stay plenty hard.
I like your idea of case hardening screw heads with kasenite to keep them from getting wallowed out but of course the best thing is to use a properly fitting bit to prevent this.
When forced to make new machine screws I use stressproof steel sold by Brownell's.
It comes pretty hard and is very useful in making firing pins as well as machine screws as it will turn nicely in the lathe and can be filed but it still is noticeable tough while being worked.

 

[M. De Land]

Chert or Flint as some like to call it has a hardness rating of 7 on the diamond hardness scale of 1-10 so one can easily see why it will eventually carve out a gouge in frizzen steel that is not properly hardened or angled correctly.
I have found though that gouging, non-sparking and short flint life is probably more often attributable to cock angle in relation to the frizzen face than is the frizzen hardness.
I think most of them will spark and not gouge if this angle is set correctly and the flint edge dressed properly.

 

[Don Steele]

There's a LOT of wisdom and experience in M.D.'s comment. Getting that angle correct has a tremendous effect on both flint longevity, and frizzen condition. I'm getting better at installing new flints and don't you know...my frizzens are looking better, and the rocks are lasting longer. :hatsoff:

 

[SgtErv]

Ran into virtually the same problem with a Lyman still frizzen. Lots of different ways to change the angle of the flint and thus where it's hitting. I thought it was a soft frizzen, but I was hitting it too low. Went bevel down and put a piece of leather cord behind the flint. Still breaks them after 15 shots or so but I'm still experimenting. I agree about the issue being all about angles. These fellas schooled me on a similar post haha

 

[Loyalist Dave]

...when a jim chambers frizzen stops throwing good sparks.

Knowing one of the builders for Chambers' locks..., I'd say if you ever have a Chambers' frizzen that stops working right, send it to them to correct it.

LD