Fowler pics...Dave Person.......

[GANGGREEN]

I had previously posted that I picked up a few muzzleloaders locally and was curious if anyone could help with ID. One of them appears to be a mid-19th century English fowler and Dave Person suggested that he had some inkling of who built it but would like to see better photos, particularly of the stamps under the barrel. Hopefully these will be adequate, but if not, I'm more than happy to try to do better and get individual photos of anything that may help with identification.

 

[GANGGREEN]

A couple more....

 

[Stumpkiller]

Both the "V" and "BPC" under the crown are old Birmingham England proof mark and view mark stamps.


It's a beautiful piece Very nice.

 

[GANGGREEN]

Thanks Stumpkiller. I got it right when I went to see another gun that had been advertised and I'm quite pleased with the fowler (more so than the gun that I originally went to see and also ended up purchasing). I'm still curious if anyone can tell me anything else about it, but my intention is to shoot it and hunt with it, assuming that it appears to be safe to do so. There's a crack in the stock which will need addressed, but the lock is remarkably tight and the rest of the gun's in very good condition as well.

 

[Huntschool]

That's a sweet gun from what I can see in the pics. Good luck with it.

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
All I can tell from those marks is that the barrel was made in Birmingham after 1813. You show no marks indicating a maker. The engraving is modest and generic, which suggest to me that the gun was an inexpensive export fowler made in Birmingham. Despite that humble prescription, it looks to be well made like many of those guns and could be a good shooter. I doubt it has a lot of value given there are no maker's marks (not uncommon for export guns) and given the modest quality. Again it may be a good shooter.

dave

 

[GANGGREEN]

Hi,
All I can tell from those marks is that the barrel was made in Birmingham after 1813. You show no marks indicating a maker. The engraving is modest and generic, which suggest to me that the gun was an inexpensive export fowler made in Birmingham. Despite that humble prescription, it looks to be well made like many of those guns and could be a good shooter. I doubt it has a lot of value given there are no maker's marks (not uncommon for export guns) and given the modest quality. Again it may be a good shooter.

dave

Thanks very much for the reply. I would have preferred to hear some great news about who built it and when, but those were the only stamps that I saw on the gun. Given that it's in good condition and I like it, I'm still OK with the knowledge that it's an original English fowler built in Birmingham and I'll use it and display it with pride. Thanks again.

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
The gun is likely from the 1850s or later given the style of engraving and the lock. If it was from a major British maker there would be identifying marks are names. However, Birmingham made thousands of unsigned guns for export that were often sold in hardware stores throughtout the US. They were good guns but not the same as those made by the well known British makers of the time.

dave

 

[Feltwad]

Ganggreen
Your gun is what has been mentioned was made in Birmingham about the 1840s with a percussion side lock for a more true date remove the lock and it may have the lock makers name or initials stamped on the inside, The engraving is bog standard for the year and most of these guns came in three bore sizes 12,14, 16. The star burst on the barrel is not common but was done on the more expensive gun , I may be wrong but I would say it is a British ironmongers gun and not a export gun which was bought in UK auction in the last decade and crossed the pond . I have restored many guns over a number of decades exactly like yours it has not done a lot of hard work going by the photos which makes me think that a export gun when made would have had a much harder life .
Feltwad
A Iron mongers Gun

 

[GANGGREEN]

Thanks Dave Person and thanks Feltwad. That "iron monger's gun" does look remarkably like mine. I don't think mine has the wedding band design on the barrel, but I'm not looking at it now and it may. I'll remove the lock as well, check for stamps or signatures and do some research. I was told by the seller that the gun is a 14 gauge, but I haven't measured the bore yet to confirm.

 

[GANGGREEN]

The lock appears to be in very good condition (the spring is still strong and it still works flawlessly, screw heads are all perfect, not to mention that there's little to no rust or corrosion and the works were/are lightly greased). I don't see any signature on the lockplate itself, but I'm nervous about taking it apart for fear that I'll gripe something up and ruin it (I've taken lots of locks apart, but modern ones that replacement parts are available for). I don't see a maker's name, initials or a date stamped on the lockplate, but I suppose it could be hidden under the lock internals. Thoughts?

 

[Feltwad]

Guns without a wedding band {Baluster turn } were mostly iron barrels not Damascus and that would put the gun early . The name on the lock plate or initial's is mainly between the leaf of the main spring
Feltwad

 

[GANGGREEN]

Guns without a wedding band {Baluster turn } were mostly iron barrels not Damascus and that would put the gun early . The name on the lock plate or initial's is mainly between the leaf of the main spring
Feltwad

Good to know, thanks, I'll look. I didn't really want to disassemble the lock because I fear breaking the long spring or something, but I'd like to know.

 

[Britsmoothy]

That's a nice find. It would be good to see smoke from it again.
Thanks to feltwad, he knows his onions on this stuff.

 

[dave_person]

Hi Feltwad,
Very glad that you chimed in. What is an "iron monger's gun". That is a term I have not heard before.

dave

 

[GANGGREEN]

Hi Feltwad,
Very glad that you chimed in. What is an "iron monger's gun". That is a term I have not heard before.

dave

Yep, I sent him a PM asking the same question or if there's reference material available anywhere. I did a quick internet search and found very little.

 

[Feltwad]

I will try and give a description of what in the Uk refer to has a Iron monger gun taken from old averts and such .This type of gun produced in Birmingham and London were complete and retailed by people such has iron mongers, also blacksmiths and agricultural merchant's for which most did not add their name to the gun . The difference between them and the provincial gun maker was that he bought in parts from Birmingham and built them in his workshop and added his name guns by provincial makers came in all grades some when finished were has good has the top London makers .
Feltwad

 

[Britsmoothy]

As in store bought....

Unfortunately most old style iron mongers have gone over here but as a child I remember a couple of the last ones around by me. Three actually.
They sold everything of usefulness.
All the ones I remember sold airguns and one sold shotguns and black powder!
They are all gone now

 

[Kansas Jake]

It seems an ironmonger would be similar to what one would have seen in a smaller community at the local hardware store. So, similar to a hardware store gun.

 

[Robby]

Yep, when I was a kid we had two hardware stores in my very small town and both sold guns and ammo, along with a lot of stuff not found in so called 'hardware' stores today.
Robby