Foster Slugs in smoothbore?

Discussion in 'Smoothbore' started by Stantheman86, Jul 22, 2019.

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  1. Jul 22, 2019 #1

    Stantheman86

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    .678 diameter Foster slugs, as a Nessler Ball?

    There's no way to lube them but at 678 I would feel, they would be able to load in a fouled bore for a realistic number of shots.

    There is also .660 "shuttlecock" slugs.

    The hollow base is encouraging, I might have to try these.
     
  2. Jul 22, 2019 #2

    Docgp

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    Would there be any gain over a similarly sized ball?? Maybe better expansion??

    Doc
     
  3. Jul 23, 2019 #3

    Grenadier1758

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    A 12 gauge cylinder bore should measure 0.729. That Foster slug is way undersized. That ball will fall down the barrel. Way too much loose fit so it may slide down the barrel and end up being an obstruction. Blow by would be excessive by the time the skirts flared out enough to seal the bore. Maybe if you had a 14 gauge.
     
  4. Jul 23, 2019 #4

    BrownBear

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    I'd be more inclined to shoot it in a 69 caliber, probably patched and with a fiber wad under it. But 12 gauge? Nah. Not unless I figured out how to take care of a whole bunch of rattle room, and I don't want to think that hard.
     
  5. Jul 23, 2019 #5

    Stantheman86

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    Yes I meant a .69 smoothbore , I guess I forgot to specify.

    .678-.680 seems ideal for a nominal .690 bore, especially to mitigate fouling.

    The pics of Russian and other Nessler balls look identical to these slugs.
     
  6. Jul 23, 2019 #6

    Britsmoothy

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    I have a number of rifled slug. I pushed them through a screw in choke to size them and shot them out of a pedersoli double.
    They sat on a fibre wad and worked reasonably well.
     
  7. Jul 23, 2019 #7

    Stantheman86

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    The rifled slugs would be ideal but are too big for .69's

    I like the idea of a choke tube as a sizer though
     
  8. Jul 23, 2019 #8

    Smokey Plainsman

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    I think with the right sized forster slug and some spermenten, it’d work. Why not? No diffurnt really than a modern Forster.
     
  9. Jul 24, 2019 #9

    curator

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    I have an older Lyman 12 Gauge hollow base slug mould. It drops slugs at .680" cast from pure lead. It was originally designed to be swaged in a "rifled slug" die that slightly increased its diameter and allowed it to pass through a choked barrel without damage. I have tried shooting it as cast from my various .69 caliber smoothbores with limited success. My best results was with smaller charges which limited their usefulness somewhat. Recovered slugs showed the base skirt blew out (Badminton birdie style) with anything over about 65 grains of FFg black powder and no wads between powder and slug. Chronograph showed 800 to 850 fps and the bullet dropped like a rock after 50 yards. Experiments with cream of wheat filler, card wads, and higher charges showed promise but were very inconsistent. As far as I could see, the hollow base slug was not as good as a patched .662 round ball which was powerful, accurate, easy to load and effective to 75+ yards even without a rear sight.
     
  10. Jul 24, 2019 #10

    Loyalist Dave

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    I've tried all sorts of slugs in modern shotguns, and by far the Brenneke design beats the Foster in my smooth bores. SO..., I'd be looking at taking a 12 ga. Brenneke slug, wrapping it with a paper patch, and using that in my Bess, OR sending the slug to LEE, and having them scale up or scale down the design to fit my bore in a custom made mold for me. Then after I hand cast them, I'd attach them to wads that fit whatever gun I had scaled the slug, and use those. IF for some reason I didn't think the 1.25 ounce Bess musket ball would do the trick..

    BRENNEKE SLUG.jpg

    LD
     
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  11. Jul 24, 2019 #11

    Stantheman86

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    The riddle of the Nessler Ball/12 gauge slug is just an interesting thing for me , these pics of recovered originals look pretty much like Foster slugs.

    Curator has some real world "field" info which is really interesting, I'm thinking, it's weird that a heavy charge of blackpowder blows the skirt out but these slugs are used in 3" Magnum shotgun shells . Maybe the pressure is different with smokeless?

    Something odd might work like trying a BP sub, or 1F Goex, etc. I usually hate subs but I'd be more inclined to experiment in my smoothbore since they're easier to clean.
     
  12. Jul 24, 2019 #12

    Britsmoothy

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    To avoid any skirt flaring use a wad or stack of cards.....just like in a cartridge.

    That aside, smokeless pressure is rapidly dropping by the time the muzzle is reached. Black powder makes huge amounts of expanding gasses and heat that is still potent by the muzzle.
     
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  13. Jul 25, 2019 #13

    curator

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    I tried various 14 gauge hard card wads as well as fiber "cushion wads" under the Lyman slug, and they were blown up into the hollow base with disastrous effect on accuracy.
     
  14. Jul 25, 2019 #14

    Britsmoothy

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    Bore size brother.
    DSCN1142_zpseyif1kip.jpg
     
  15. Aug 10, 2019 #15

    nhmoose

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    Another trick the suppository guys use is to fill the hollow base of the slug with hot glue. The type that uses glue sticks pushed through the heater gun. The hard card wads underneath powder can't blow the wad into the slug that way.
     
  16. Aug 10, 2019 #16

    Britsmoothy

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    Actually glueing a suitable wad to the slug this way would go a long way to improving accuracy!
     
  17. Aug 10, 2019 #17

    tenngun

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    The Rube Goldberg shooting accessories company?
     
  18. Aug 10, 2019 #18

    Rat

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    What does a Foster weigh compared to the same size ball? They seem to be mostly "tube" with some lead for a nose, or mostly hollow base, with the base extending to the nose, which seems to me would shed velocity rapidly, and really have little sectional density as we think of it with projectiles. (yes, a ball also has little sectional density) For target use I suppose that does not matter. For hunting I think I'd rather use a ball. ??
     
  19. Aug 11, 2019 #19

    Stantheman86

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    A Foster slug made from a mold with the plug for the hollow base taken out?

    I'm thinking the original intent of the Nessler was to make it undersize, by a lot, then a few firm thumps with the ramrod expands it into the bore.

    I had read somewhere that there was a bullet with this intent in mind but troops in the heat of battle could not reliably give a bullet 4 firm thumps each time they load , and I mean, really, just getting a bullet seated onto the powder and fired is miraculous enough in the heat of combat.

    Nessler balls have been recovered with screw puller holes in the top of them, likely pulled after Pickett duty or weapons unloaded after being loaded for contact that never occurred or a battle that ended with soldiers having loaded weapons. So these bullets must have been seated firmly enough to require a good effort to pull them.
     
  20. Aug 11, 2019 #20

    45man

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    I have never succeeded with shotgun slugs in modern or BP guns. It is a thorn in my side. The most accurate was the WW foster for me and teacup groups at 50 was common. Brenneke did not work with one shot on paper and the rest gone somewhere. I have Lyman and Lee molds but all fail. I duplicated the WW and still had wads driven into the hollow bases so I can't figure how WW does it. Slugs made to fit shot cups also fail with the wads destroyed.
    I even bought a rifled barrel for the shotgun and still can't make it work, even a RB. I have filled the hollow bases to no avail. Long ago in Ohio I killed deer to 100 yards with the WW factory slugs but handloads are a 10' proposition. Once I bought a kit called the Hammer Heads, shells primed so just add powder and crimp. WOW, tiny 100 yard groups with the sabot slug but expensive and I am cheap. I have drawers filled with components that never worked.
    I was sent some full size bullets and a load of a prodigious amount of SR 4759 that I fear to shoot. Modern or BP, it is hard so if anyone works it out, please help me.
     

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