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Flintlocks rifles, win the war

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Simply put.

The "Indians" have a secure homeland it's called The United States of America or Canada depending on where they reside.

Native American's have a long proud history of sacrificing their lives to protect their respective homelands and are still prepared to do so, even to this day whether they serve under the Stars and Stripes or the Maple Leaf.

I have Creek and Cherokee running through my veins and I am thankful that that part of my ancestry was subjugated by a moral and just people. Was it perfect? No, but there is enough shame and blame to go around for all the cultures involved, yet the greatness of these combined cultures remains.

Napoleon was defeated in Russia in the Winter of 12 & 13. He eventually abdicated the throne and fled to exile in Corsica. The allies tried to set up a puppet Bourbon State in Paris. In early 1815 Napoleon escaped his exile and reorganized his army ultimately to be defeated in June 1815. The War in America was over by February 1815. So Waterloo occurred after the War of 1812.

Tippecanoe occurred in November of 1811 while Tecumseh was down south trying to garner the support of the southern nations. Harrison led a force and camped nearby. Harrison had made arrangements to meet with the "Prophet" the next day Nov 7 1811.
Indian warriors attacked Harrison's camp on the morning of the 7th before dawn. While warriors did infiltrate the camp, they were eventually repulsed by the Americans but with heavy casualties. In this engagement Harrison suffered more loss than the "Prophet". When Harrisom decided to move on Tippecanoe or Prophetstown he found it abandoned. The stores of corn were taken by the army and the town was burned.
It was a tactical victory as the ultimate goal was the dispersion of the Indian alliance at Tippecanoe although Harrison suffered more loss.
Prophetstown was later rebuilt so this was only a minor set back for Tecumseh's Pan Indian Alliance. Soon after Indian warriors were loosed in the North West causing much bloodshed.

This occurred before The War of 1812.
Brant died in 1807.

In part due to the savagery of the Indian Wars in the Northwest and The Southwest during The War of 1812, the US "plan for civilization" was abandoned for the alternative of Indian Removal and ultimately the Reservation System.

As far as might makes right...you better believe it. I'm glad the "might" was right. I believe that because of the terrible regimes that came later. Regimes represented by the Swastika, the Rising Sun or the Red Star. I much prefer the "might" of the Maple Leaf and the Stars and Stripes to those regimes.

Moral and just people;
With Creek and Cherokee ancestry I’m surprised at your opinion. See Trail of Tears. If that’s moral or just I hope you’re not on the jury if I’m ever in court.
 
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Fo
Simply put.

The "Indians" have a secure homeland it's called The United States of America or Canada depending on where they reside.

Native American's have a long proud history of sacrificing their lives to protect their respective homelands and are still prepared to do so, even to this day whether they serve under the Stars and Stripes or the Maple Leaf.

I have Creek and Cherokee running through my veins and I am thankful that that part of my ancestry was subjugated by a moral and just people. Was it perfect? No, but there is enough shame and blame to go around for all the cultures involved, yet the greatness of these combined cultures remains.

Napoleon was defeated in Russia in the Winter of 12 & 13. He eventually abdicated the throne and fled to exile in Corsica. The allies tried to set up a puppet Bourbon State in Paris. In early 1815 Napoleon escaped his exile and reorganized his army ultimately to be defeated in June 1815. The War in America was over by February 1815. So Waterloo occurred after the War of 1812.

Tippecanoe occurred in November of 1811 while Tecumseh was down south trying to garner the support of the southern nations. Harrison led a force and camped nearby. Harrison had made arrangements to meet with the "Prophet" the next day Nov 7 1811.
Indian warriors attacked Harrison's camp on the morning of the 7th before dawn. While warriors did infiltrate the camp, they were eventually repulsed by the Americans but with heavy casualties. In this engagement Harrison suffered more loss than the "Prophet". When Harrisom decided to move on Tippecanoe or Prophetstown he found it abandoned. The stores of corn were taken by the army and the town was burned.
It was a tactical victory as the ultimate goal was the dispersion of the Indian alliance at Tippecanoe although Harrison suffered more loss.
Prophetstown was later rebuilt so this was only a minor set back for Tecumseh's Pan Indian Alliance. Soon after Indian warriors were loosed in the North West causing much bloodshed.

This occurred before The War of 1812.
Brant died in 1807.

In part due to the savagery of the Indian Wars in the Northwest and The Southwest during The War of 1812, the US "plan for civilization" was abandoned for the alternative of Indian Removal and ultimately the Reservation System.

As far as might makes right...you better believe it. I'm glad the "might" was right. I believe that because of the terrible regimes that came later. Regimes represented by the Swastika, the Rising Sun or the Red Star. I much prefer the "might" of the Maple Leaf and the Stars and Stripes to those regimes.

I find almost insulting when people say that the battle of New Orleans was a worthless victory for the Americans because there was a peace settlement before the battle occured. Some relevant points.

1. The British invested heavily in divesting the American claim on New Orleans, for years before the War of 1812 the British Navy monitored trade in the Caribbean between the Caribbean and New Orleans, theres a reason why they call New Orleans the northern most Caribbean city. When NO was under French ownership the British had eyeballed it as a likely aquisition in the ongoing French Revolutionary Wars and Napoleonic Wars. Lastly on this point, controlling New Orleans meant controlling a critical trade route in North American, all aspects of trade, including trade with Spanish Territory, a prospective Native American State and far more yielding America. Point being, the British always had aspirations of owning New Orleans. It would have been the hong Kong of the West.

2. The. War of 1812 was an unwanted war for both Americans and British, there was minimal support for it in the North, which is why the militia was very unreliable in the Canadian Invasion, nobody other that the politicians in DC wanted Canada. The War of 1812 had more to do with breaking the chains of sovereignty that the British had denied the Americans since the end of the American Revolutionary War, the Jay Treaty, the Northwest Indian War were all preludes that were intended to avoid conflicts on a greater scale.

3. The War of 1812 was the final conflict of the American Revolutionary War, and final colonial War of North America. The border between Quebec/Canada and the Ohio territories had been disputed in almost every single North American conflict for 100 years prior to the War of 1812. It was a necessary war to define what North American was to be in modern times.

4. On the battle of NO, the end of 1814 was a now or never moment for the British, the British had failed at Plattsburgh and Baltimore and needed leverage before the treaty was ratified in congress or if it had failed ratification. General Packenham had secret orders to execute military operations regardless of what was occurring at the peace table. New Orleans was a logical choice.

5. British intel on the topography of New Orleans and tides was poor, the British attacked at what they thought was low tide, limiting their advance on the outer bank of the American flank, the timing was just poor.

6. The Americans had recruited an army made up of mostly native americans and freedmen of color, mulatos, and conscripted slaves, Cajuns and convicts and pirates, not your typical militia. Most of these folks have been under several nations of leadership and were very comfortable with the freedoms aforded to them by their American governors. The British were a threat to private property.

7. Rifles did not win the day for the Americans, it was bad decision by the British and marching Directly into grape shot and buck and ball rounds. Slaves also played a major part of hte battle, digging the trenches and were armed for the fight and had contributed to much of the Bravery of the battle For the American side. These generations of slaves and freedmen of color would make up the very first commissioned black officers in the American military.
 
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The Battle was fought after the British surrender the war to the US. So how does that count?

15000 British Red Coats and American Regulars and Miltia gathered on Chalemete field to fight for ownership of New Orleans... 2,000 British were killed wounded and captured with three generals wounded and two dead.

the battle happened therefore it counted as having Occurred. There are no asterisks in War, men died fighting Following their orders.
 

Zonie

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Men died fighting For a war that had already ended. Yes it was a tragedy but the war was over before it happened. Don't get your panties in a wad over FACT
What were they supposed to do? The Telegraph wouldn't be invented until 1844 and carrier pigeons were an unreliable way to transmit messages from Washington to New Orleans. No one in Louisiana knew the "war had ended".

You've got a large number of British marching towards New Orleans with every intention of taking it. Also there was a large number of Americans bound and determined that the British wouldn't be allowed to succeed. Thousands died as a result.

IMO, just because some people over 1,300 miles away decided to stop fighting it doesn't change the fact that the men on both sides present during the battle of New Orleans were still at war. Because of this, I consider the battle to be a part of the war of 1812.
 
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Men died fighting For a war that had already ended. Yes it was a tragedy but the war was over before it happened. Don't get your panties in a wad over FACT

Your cancel culture views are just plain nonsense. Fact the battle happened bc a state of war existed between Britain and America.
 

smoothshooter

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The Battle of New Orleans, 1815
The American mission seemed hopeless. As dawn broke on the morning of January 8, 1815 a ragtag group of Americans faced off against the world's mightiest military force a few miles south of New Orleans. America was in bad shape: its treasury was almost bankrupt, its Capital had been ransacked the preceding summer (see "The British Burn Washington, 1814") and public support for the war was dwindling.

War between America and Britain had been raging since 1812, but it was only with the recent defeat of Napoleon that the British Empire could unleash the full force of its military might to squash its former colonies. British strategy focused on capturing the port of New Orleans. Its capture would give them control of the Mississippi River and sever America's vital commerce route to the Gulf of Mexico and beyond. The British began amassing its invasion force in the summer of 1814. Alerted, the US government dispatched a frantic message to General Andrew Jackson to immediately proceed to New Orleans and devise a defense of the city.

Jackson arrived in the city on December 2, 1814 and found its citizens in near-panic. A British naval force appeared on near-by Lake Borgne on December 12 and quickly destroyed the American defenses there. By December 23 the British land force was only 8 miles south of the city. Jackson announced to the British that he was ready to fight by immediately launching an attack. Rebuffed, Jackson retreated only three miles towards the city where he ordered the digging of a watery trench bordered by a massive breastwork that stretched some 1000 yards from the swamps to the Mississippi River. Here, Jackson would make his stand.

The battle was joined during the early-morning hours of January 8, 1815. Poor leadership, confusion on the battlefield, the swampy terrain and American tenacity combined to create a debacle for the British Army. Within an hour after it started, the fight was ended with the surrender of the British on the battlefield. The British suffered an estimated 300 killed and 1,200 wounded while the Americans counted 13 killed and 52 wounded or missing.

In an ironic twist of history, peace between America and Britain had been achieved two weeks earlier with the signing of the Treaty of Ghent. However, news of the event had not reached the shores of America. Despite its lack of impact on the outcome of the war, the battle was an important milestone in America's development. The victory gave the American people pride in their new nation and confidence in its future.

"They're comin' on their all fours!"

An unknown eyewitness, fighting from the top of the breastworks defending New Orleans, describes the battle.

"Col. Smiley, from Bardstown, was the first one who gave us orders to fire from our part of the line; and then, I reckon, there was a pretty considerable noise... Directly after the firing began, Capt. Patterson, I think he was from Knox County, Kentucky, but an Irishman born, came running along. He jumped upon the brestwork (sic) and stooping a moment to look through the darkness as well as he could, he shouted with a broad North of Ireland brogue, 'shoot low, boys! shoot low! rake them - rake them! They're comin' on their all fours!'

...It was so dark that little could be seen, until just about the time the battle ceased. The morning had dawned to be sure, but the smoke was so thick that every thing seemed to be covered up in it. Our men did not seem to apprehend any danger, but would load and fire as fast as they could, talking, swearing, and joking all the time. All ranks and sections were soon broken up. After the first shot, everyone loaded and banged away on his own hook.

Henry Spillman did not load and fire quite so often as some of the rest, but every time he did fire he would go up to the brestwork, look over until he could see something to shoot at, and then take deliberate aim and crack away.

At one time I noticed, a little on our right, a curious kind of a chap named Ambrose Odd, one of Captain Higdon's company, and known among the men by the nickname of 'Sukey,' standing coolly on the top of the brestworks and peering into the darkness for something to shoot at. The balls were whistling around him and over our heads, as thick as hail, and Col. Slaughter coming along, ordered him to come down.

The Colonel told him there was policy in war, and that he was exposing himself too much. Sukey turned around, holding up the flap of his old broad brimmed hat with one hand, to see who was speaking to him, and replied: 'Oh! never mind Colonel - here's Sukey - I don't want to waste my powder, and I'd like to know how I can shoot until I see something?' Pretty soon after, Sukey got his eye on a red coat, and, no doubt, made a hole through it, for he took deliberate aim, fired and then coolly came down to load again.

During the action, a number of the Tennessee men got mixed with ours. One of them was killed about five or six yards from where I stood. I did not know his name. A ball passed through his head and he fell against Ensign Weller...This was the only man killed near my station.

It was near the close of the firing....there was a white flag raised on the opposite side of the brestwork and the firing ceased. The white flag, before mentioned, was raised about ten or twelve feet from where I stood, close to the brestwork and a little to the right. It was a white handkerchief, or something of the kind, on a sword or stick. It was waved several times, and as soon as it was perceived, we ceased firing.

Just then the wind got up a little and blew the smoke off, so that we could see the field. It then appeared that the flag had been raised by a British Officer wearing epaulets. It was told he was a Major. He stepped over the brestwork and came into our lines. Among the Tennesseans who had got mixed with us during the fight, there was a little fellow whose name I do not know; but he was a cadaverous looking chap and went by that of Paleface.

As the British Officer came in, Paleface demanded his sword. He hesitated about giving it to him, probably thinking it was derogatory to his dignity, to surrender to a private all over begrimed with dust and powder and that some Officer should show him the courtesy to receive it.

Just at that moment, Co!. Smiley came up and cried, with a harsh oath, 'Give it up-give it up to him in a minute.' The British Officer quickly handed his weapon to Paleface, holding it in both hands and making a very polite bow. A good many others came in just about the same time.

...On the opposite side of the brestwork there was a ditch about ten feet wide, made by the excavation of the earth, of which the work was formed. In it, was about a foot or eighteen inches of water, and to make it the more difficult of passage, a quantity of thornbush had been cut and thrown into it. In this ditch a number of British soldiers were found at the close under the brestwork, as a shelter from our fire. These, of course, came in and surrendered.

When the smoke had cleared away and we could obtain a fair view of the field, it looked, at the first glance, like a sea of blood. It was not blood itself which gave it this appearance but the red coats in which the British soldiers were dressed. Straight out before our position, for about the width of space which we supposed had been occupied by the British column, the field was entirely covered with prostrate bodies. In some places they were laying in piles of several, one on the top of the other."

References:
This eyewitness account first appeared in The Louisiana Historical Quarterly, Vol. IX, No. 1, January 1926, republished in Angle, Paul, M., The American Reader (1958); Remini, Robert Vincent, The Battle of New Orleans (1999).


marc n tomtom
The Battle of New Orleans, 1815
The American mission seemed hopeless. As dawn broke on the morning of January 8, 1815 a ragtag group of Americans faced off against the world's mightiest military force a few miles south of New Orleans. America was in bad shape: its treasury was almost bankrupt, its Capital had been ransacked the preceding summer (see "The British Burn Washington, 1814") and public support for the war was dwindling.

War between America and Britain had been raging since 1812, but it was only with the recent defeat of Napoleon that the British Empire could unleash the full force of its military might to squash its former colonies. British strategy focused on capturing the port of New Orleans. Its capture would give them control of the Mississippi River and sever America's vital commerce route to the Gulf of Mexico and beyond. The British began amassing its invasion force in the summer of 1814. Alerted, the US government dispatched a frantic message to General Andrew Jackson to immediately proceed to New Orleans and devise a defense of the city.

Jackson arrived in the city on December 2, 1814 and found its citizens in near-panic. A British naval force appeared on near-by Lake Borgne on December 12 and quickly destroyed the American defenses there. By December 23 the British land force was only 8 miles south of the city. Jackson announced to the British that he was ready to fight by immediately launching an attack. Rebuffed, Jackson retreated only three miles towards the city where he ordered the digging of a watery trench bordered by a massive breastwork that stretched some 1000 yards from the swamps to the Mississippi River. Here, Jackson would make his stand.

The battle was joined during the early-morning hours of January 8, 1815. Poor leadership, confusion on the battlefield, the swampy terrain and American tenacity combined to create a debacle for the British Army. Within an hour after it started, the fight was ended with the surrender of the British on the battlefield. The British suffered an estimated 300 killed and 1,200 wounded while the Americans counted 13 killed and 52 wounded or missing.

In an ironic twist of history, peace between America and Britain had been achieved two weeks earlier with the signing of the Treaty of Ghent. However, news of the event had not reached the shores of America. Despite its lack of impact on the outcome of the war, the battle was an important milestone in America's development. The victory gave the American people pride in their new nation and confidence in its future.

"They're comin' on their all fours!"

An unknown eyewitness, fighting from the top of the breastworks defending New Orleans, describes the battle.

"Col. Smiley, from Bardstown, was the first one who gave us orders to fire from our part of the line; and then, I reckon, there was a pretty considerable noise... Directly after the firing began, Capt. Patterson, I think he was from Knox County, Kentucky, but an Irishman born, came running along. He jumped upon the brestwork (sic) and stooping a moment to look through the darkness as well as he could, he shouted with a broad North of Ireland brogue, 'shoot low, boys! shoot low! rake them - rake them! They're comin' on their all fours!'

...It was so dark that little could be seen, until just about the time the battle ceased. The morning had dawned to be sure, but the smoke was so thick that every thing seemed to be covered up in it. Our men did not seem to apprehend any danger, but would load and fire as fast as they could, talking, swearing, and joking all the time. All ranks and sections were soon broken up. After the first shot, everyone loaded and banged away on his own hook.

Henry Spillman did not load and fire quite so often as some of the rest, but every time he did fire he would go up to the brestwork, look over until he could see something to shoot at, and then take deliberate aim and crack away.

At one time I noticed, a little on our right, a curious kind of a chap named Ambrose Odd, one of Captain Higdon's company, and known among the men by the nickname of 'Sukey,' standing coolly on the top of the brestworks and peering into the darkness for something to shoot at. The balls were whistling around him and over our heads, as thick as hail, and Col. Slaughter coming along, ordered him to come down.

The Colonel told him there was policy in war, and that he was exposing himself too much. Sukey turned around, holding up the flap of his old broad brimmed hat with one hand, to see who was speaking to him, and replied: 'Oh! never mind Colonel - here's Sukey - I don't want to waste my powder, and I'd like to know how I can shoot until I see something?' Pretty soon after, Sukey got his eye on a red coat, and, no doubt, made a hole through it, for he took deliberate aim, fired and then coolly came down to load again.

During the action, a number of the Tennessee men got mixed with ours. One of them was killed about five or six yards from where I stood. I did not know his name. A ball passed through his head and he fell against Ensign Weller...This was the only man killed near my station.

It was near the close of the firing....there was a white flag raised on the opposite side of the brestwork and the firing ceased. The white flag, before mentioned, was raised about ten or twelve feet from where I stood, close to the brestwork and a little to the right. It was a white handkerchief, or something of the kind, on a sword or stick. It was waved several times, and as soon as it was perceived, we ceased firing.

Just then the wind got up a little and blew the smoke off, so that we could see the field. It then appeared that the flag had been raised by a British Officer wearing epaulets. It was told he was a Major. He stepped over the brestwork and came into our lines. Among the Tennesseans who had got mixed with us during the fight, there was a little fellow whose name I do not know; but he was a cadaverous looking chap and went by that of Paleface.

As the British Officer came in, Paleface demanded his sword. He hesitated about giving it to him, probably thinking it was derogatory to his dignity, to surrender to a private all over begrimed with dust and powder and that some Officer should show him the courtesy to receive it.

Just at that moment, Co!. Smiley came up and cried, with a harsh oath, 'Give it up-give it up to him in a minute.' The British Officer quickly handed his weapon to Paleface, holding it in both hands and making a very polite bow. A good many others came in just about the same time.

...On the opposite side of the brestwork there was a ditch about ten feet wide, made by the excavation of the earth, of which the work was formed. In it, was about a foot or eighteen inches of water, and to make it the more difficult of passage, a quantity of thornbush had been cut and thrown into it. In this ditch a number of British soldiers were found at the close under the brestwork, as a shelter from our fire. These, of course, came in and surrendered.

When the smoke had cleared away and we could obtain a fair view of the field, it looked, at the first glance, like a sea of blood. It was not blood itself which gave it this appearance but the red coats in which the British soldiers were dressed. Straight out before our position, for about the width of space which we supposed had been occupied by the British column, the field was entirely covered with prostrate bodies. In some places they were laying in piles of several, one on the top of the other."

References:
This eyewitness account first appeared in The Louisiana Historical Quarterly, Vol. IX, No. 1, January 1926, republished in Angle, Paul, M., The American Reader (1958); Remini, Robert Vincent, The Battle of New Orleans (1999).


marc n tomtom

Not as many rifles were used by the Americans at New Orleans as most people think.
Don’t know the numbers, but a very large quantity was lost when a barge loaded with rifles belonging to the militia sunk crossing a river channel or lake.
Someone on the American side thought it was a good idea to take most of the rifles across all at once, and then bring the riflemen across separately in relays. General Jackson sent many squads of men into the city to go house to house commandeering every old musket and fowling piece that appeared to be functional they could find, to make up for the shortage of guns.
The British screwed up even worse. During their assault on the elevated American earth works and cotton bale ramparts the officer in charge of the groups of men that were supposed to bring up the long scaling ladders for getting up and over the American defenses forgot to give the order to set them in motion until the leading British elements were almost to the American lines. When the senior officer leading the assault realized this, he rode over to the officer that screwed up and screamed at him that if he survived the attack he would kill the ladder guy himself.
The officer making the threat was himself killed a few minutes later.
Don’t recall if the scaling ladder officer survived the attack.
 

54ball

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This was a travesty of justice.
There is no proof that rifle was stolen.
This was a massive overreaction by local, state and federal authorities.

The owner, (owners family, this gentleman died during the lengthy court proceedings ) has been awarded his rifle back.
The court ruled that there is no evidence that the rifle was stolen. The owner purchased the rifle legally from an antique store (incidentally on the same street as the museum). All paperwork was in order.

The judge also ruled that even if the rifle was stolen at some unknown date the statute of limitations had run it’s course. Also the owner bought the rifle barrel in good faith over 4 decades ago and by law.....
It’s his rifle.

The deceased owner had researched the rifle and traced it’s origins.
He let his rifle be displayed in many places including the Chalmette Battlefield for the 200th anniversary of the Battle of New Orleans.

It was only after this rifle was published, namely in the American Rifleman and given a value estimate of $750,000 that suddenly the museum “found” the paper work.

Museums often liquidate objects, especially if it’s not the focus of the museum.
The Confederacy has nothing to do with the War of 1812 and the Battle of New Orleans.

Again there is no proof this rifle was ever stolen from the museum.

Incidentally the only evidence of theft is on the museum of the confederacy, local, state and federal authorities by raiding this elderly mans home and seizing his rifle at gun point with zero evidence of just cause.

The rifle has been awarded back to the family. Whether they ever take procession remains to be seen. That may mean court proceedings.
The museum used the court to “out last” and out live the owner. They’ll probably try to appeal and outlast the heirs.

The Museum of the Confederacy can go pound sand!!!!!
 
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