Flintlock made in India

[1853enfield]

Should you buy a dog lock? Is there any advantage to a dog lock?

The dog lock is a form of safety as the "dog" is a hook that captures the hammer to prevent it from inadvertently falling. when the hammer is pulled back, the dog disengages and the hammer will fall on the trigger pull.

at least i now know what a dog lock really is. i might have to sell something to buy one but there are safe queens in my same that i wouldnt miss a whole lot.

 

[hawkeye2]

Traditions offers the blunderbuss in flintlock as a kit.

https://www.muzzle-loaders.com/traditions-flintlock-blunderbuss-kit-54-caliber-kr510.html

 

[fourbore]

I have the doglock blunderbus with a steel barrel from Middlesex. Vent came drilled. The lock sparks very well, but the trigger pull is 20 pound! I'm sure I could lighten it up a little by polishing, but since it's more of a 4th of July toy, I haven't bothered. I also have one of their matchlocks and wheellocks, and have shot both. There's a good reason wheellocks died out quickly once flintlocks came around!

I apologize, I was unclear. All the sellers rework the Indian guns before re shipping them to usa customers. So; vents are drilled and parts hardened, etc. That is by Middlesex or anyone reputable. Basically they come of the boat as assembled kits. Probably costing $100. They get $200 of rework labor and then sold for $400. I am making those numbers up, you get the idea.

I dont know where the OP stands on building his own. I am 100% confident building one of the USA kits would result in an order magnitude better result. I would say the Italian or Spanish guns split the difference in reputation.

AFAIK Middlesex does not offer any wheelock and never have. Or they miss communicated that to me. Apparently, I got that story wrong via my limited email exchange. And phone calls are forbidden. His wife mentioned they were considering a wheellock. The email was "no comment" at this time. And watch facebook. I dont do facebook. I am on a wait list for canadian/indian wheellock and purchased a Kit from TRS. I will be in a state of shock is either ever show up.

 

[Zapadach]

I just recently purchased a 1795 Springfield from Military Heritage, and thus far I am very impressed in the quality of the workmanship. The fit and Finnish is not unlike the original 1873 trapdoor Springfield that has been in our family over 120 years. I noticed after I was sent the tracking number for my shipment, their website showed that this musket was sold out. I would not be surprised if they took it right out of their display case and sent it to me, it looks that good !

 

[Tom A Hawk]

In my experience, albeit a bit limited, everything I have seen from India has been made with files and imperfect sand castings. I would therefore decline to purchase any gun parts from there.

 

[Sidney Smith]

More than likely built in some dirt floor hut, by barefoot peasants, using whatever junk metal they could find and smelt in some home made clay mold. I wouldn't take anything made in India, even if it we're given to me. In my experience, made in India = sub standard junk.

 

[Zapadach]

Tom A hawk, I have been an avid motorcyclist for many years and I have watched with keen interest the progression of quality of the Royal Enfield motorcycle company, wich is made in India. Right now they produce 3 of the best 650 cc motorcycles that can be found with a price point that most people can afford. The kicker to that is they offer a two or three year unlimited mile warranty on their machines. It is very unlikely these machines are built in a mud hut by a bare foot peasant with a file and some clay. India is competing with China for market share and they are serious about this. Likewise their replica fire arm companies are on the same trajectory. That is why I took the chance and bought one, I hoped for the best with the belief that the musket might be OK or a total disaster. Well as it turned out this musket is outstanding ! It compares in workmanship with the 1873 trapdoor Springfield 45/70 that has been in my family for over 120 years. That trapdoor Springfield was built when the U.S. was competing with England and Germany for market share. So things do change and sometimes for the better. Oh by the way, this gun was a little more than one third the price of a Pedersoli. Also there are many YouTube videos covering these guns.

 

[Zapadach]

Sidney Smith, please read my post to Tom A Hawk.

 

[Sam squanch]

I’ve seen junk India guns, and seen good quality Indian guns. Depends on the time and place in India it was made….

 

[FlinterNick]

My opinion on Indian made muzzle loaders is that they’re just not the best quality and not very authentic. Their Charlevilles, Springfields and some Brown Bess’s don’t really look authentic and need additional work in the 300-700$, which is a value you will never recover on trade or resale.

As for middlesex, the owner doesn’t follow his own policies, offer’s no warranty or repair services and maintains a horrible business practice of taking payment for goods he doesn’t have on hand.

As for the lock’s being too soft, this is actually a pretty common issue even with American made locks. Italian made locks are usually hardened well enough. But I woudln’t sent the lock to Pete to reharden.

 

[FlinterNick]

I've purchased from Middlesex, but never again. The guy runs a lock scam, contending he spends all his waking hours refurbing locks under warranty for reenactors. I sent my lock in because the sear was unannealed soft metal and bent enough to impede function after only a few shots fired. Turnaround was a couple of months & the cheating ba$tard just straightened it & sent it back - it was still soft. I was finally able to anneal it myself. He ignored all my further attempts to contact him to make his work right. Avoid this guy at all costs.
OTOH, Loylaist is very easy to contact and very helpful THEY sell a better quality product.

Indian made locks really need to be casehardened well enough to maintain a good quality of hardness, …. That is as long as there are not geometric issues because a well hardened lock with geometric issues will still not work well.

 

[Colonial Boy]

My only Indian firearm is a copy of a Scottish all metal pistol and would pass for the real thing except for the date, 1957, stamped along with the maker’s name etc, on the opposite side of the barrel to the touch hole I if one had been drilled)
‘This is a non-firer and has a hole drilled through the under side of the barrel as well.
‘Quality and finish are very, very good and the lock sparks well.

The give away is when the metal stock is examined with the barrel removed, the stock is electric welded together although there is no sign of this from the outside.

 

[Sidney Smith]

Sidney Smith, please read my post to Tom A Hawk.

I've seen your post before regarding the motorcycle. I'll say it again, if you want to buy made in India products, it's your money. I don't trust anything made in India, and will not buy anything made in India.

 

[longtoothpard]

I bought one of those 1795s a year ago. I have work to do on the lock mechanism (tumbler and sear), and harden them when done. Since then I picked up a nice old Miroku (Navy Arms) Charleville, which I absolutely love. If I had it to do over again, I would have saved my money that I spent on the Indian 1795 and used it on the Charleville. But, you never know the future.

 

[JCKelly]

Wherever your musket has been made, check that the barrel is gun barrel quality steel, low in phosphorus and sulfur. Machined from bar, not made of tubing.

 

[Steve Martin]

I owned a pretty nice Brown Bess short land pattern from Loyalist Arms about three years ago and it shot just fine. I sold it to a friend who still shoots it at the range with me on a regular basis. The India made muskets are probably better made and use better metal than our founders had during the War for Independence. We all know that it's also not that uncommon to have to do a little work now and then on a lock from almost anyone. No, my biggest issue (with ALL the importers and sellers of the India made guns), is the crappy Teak wood used by them for the stocks! Every single India made gun I have ever seen has the same soft, greasy feeling Teak wood. So if the wood that is used in India doesn't bother you it is possible to get a pretty decent (and safe) gun at a much cheaper price - BUT! by the time you do a bit of work on the lock or send the lock off for tuning and clean, strip and re-finish the rough looking stock, you could have bought a much nicer "used" Pedersoli or Sitting Fox etc. which is exactly what I ended up doing.

 

[FlinterNick]

I bought one of those 1795s a year ago. I have work to do on the lock mechanism (tumbler and sear), and harden them when done. Since then I picked up a nice old Miroku (Navy Arms) Charleville, which I absolutely love. If I had it to do over again, I would have saved my money that I spent on the Indian 1795 and used it on the Charleville. But, you never know the future.

I’ve picked up several navy arms chareville’s over the years, used and old but never used. Nothing compares to the quality other than a custom gun.

 

[springfield art]

i am sure this has been discussed many times but still would like some information. I have been thinking about taking some of my $1200 government check and purchasing a blunderbuss. I have no idea why i want one but then dont really need a reason. I do know that the torch hole will need to be drilled, and it will be shot very seldom. what are the thoughts of the group. i do have a 12 ga double that was made in India and have never given me a problem. I have read conflicting reports and would like the opinion of the group. joe g. in Selah Wa.

The Military Blunderbuss offered by Veteran Arms in Georgia looks good. They have another, I think French, but you want to look at the one that has the Brown Bess English look to it. They're India, but the guy's OK, and I bought like 3 muskets from him. Look up his site.

 

[springfield art]

I owned a pretty nice Brown Bess short land pattern from Loyalist Arms about three years ago and it shot just fine. I sold it to a friend who still shoots it at the range with me on a regular basis. The India made muskets are probably better made and use better metal than our founders had during the War for Independence. We all know that it's also not that uncommon to have to do a little work now and then on a lock from almost anyone. No, my biggest issue (with ALL the importers and sellers of the India made guns), is the crappy Teak wood used by them for the stocks! Every single India made gun I have ever seen has the same soft, greasy feeling Teak wood. So if the wood that is used in India doesn't bother you it is possible to get a pretty decent (and safe) gun at a much cheaper price - BUT! by the time you do a bit of work on the lock or send the lock off for tuning and clean, strip and re-finish the rough looking stock, you could have bought a much nicer "used" Pedersoli or Sitting Fox etc. which is exactly what I ended up doing.

Yeah, you pretty much nailed it!

 

[Auldjin]

Rather off subject I know, but this is my Grice blunderbuss.