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Flintlock lock disassembly

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dave_person

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Hi Tumbler,
I am assuming your gun is actually like the Manton pistols. Pictures would help to make sure. The lock bolt is the screw that goes through the stock horizontally behind the breech and threads into the lock plate. If your gun is really like the Mantons, you will have 1 lock bolt. It is possible that you have another for the front of the lock but those Mantons have just 1 bolt and they also have a hook or lug under the front of the lock plate that attaches to a screw head located within the lock mortice. That lug replaces the older design of having a second lock bolt in the front. Flintlocks typically had 2 bolts or one bolt and the hook so that the lock plate was positioned tightly against the barrel with no gaps. Gaps could allow powder flash to burn the wood under the lock so the plate had to fit tight against the barrel. The standing breech is part of the hook and tang style brech. It is the part that remains in the stock and receives the hook on the end of the barrel. Below are photos of standing breeches and hooks.




The standing breech pictured has a hump and sighting groove common during the 1740-1770s. The Mantons pistols are from the early 19th century and the breeches would be flat on top like the pistol below:


dave
 

Tumbler

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Hi Tumbler,
I am assuming your gun is actually like the Manton pistols. Pictures would help to make sure. The lock bolt is the screw that goes through the stock horizontally behind the breech and threads into the lock plate. If your gun is really like the Mantons, you will have 1 lock bolt. It is possible that you have another for the front of the lock but those Mantons have just 1 bolt and they also have a hook or lug under the front of the lock plate that attaches to a screw head located within the lock mortice. That lug replaces the older design of having a second lock bolt in the front. Flintlocks typically had 2 bolts or one bolt and the hook so that the lock plate was positioned tightly against the barrel with no gaps. Gaps could allow powder flash to burn the wood under the lock so the plate had to fit tight against the barrel. The standing breech is part of the hook and tang style brech. It is the part that remains in the stock and receives the hook on the end of the barrel. Below are photos of standing breeches and hooks.




The standing breech pictured has a hump and sighting groove common during the 1740-1770s. The Mantons pistols are from the early 19th century and the breeches would be flat on top like the pistol below:


dave
Your description and pictures along with everyones help has been great! When I get the Manton to take it apart and clean it this will be very helpful. Thanks
 

Tumbler

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Hi Tumbler,
I am assuming your gun is actually like the Manton pistols. Pictures would help to make sure. The lock bolt is the screw that goes through the stock horizontally behind the breech and threads into the lock plate. If your gun is really like the Mantons, you will have 1 lock bolt. It is possible that you have another for the front of the lock but those Mantons have just 1 bolt and they also have a hook or lug under the front of the lock plate that attaches to a screw head located within the lock mortice. That lug replaces the older design of having a second lock bolt in the front. Flintlocks typically had 2 bolts or one bolt and the hook so that the lock plate was positioned tightly against the barrel with no gaps. Gaps could allow powder flash to burn the wood under the lock so the plate had to fit tight against the barrel. The standing breech is part of the hook and tang style brech. It is the part that remains in the stock and receives the hook on the end of the barrel. Below are photos of standing breeches and hooks.




The standing breech pictured has a hump and sighting groove common during the 1740-1770s. The Mantons pistols are from the early 19th century and the breeches would be flat on top like the pistol below:


dave
Dave the construction of the Manton gun looks very close to this one. EXCEPTIONAL CASED PAIR OF GENTLEMANS FLINTLOCK DUELING PISTOLS BY JOSEPH MANTON. (1822). | Poulin's Antiques and Auctions, Inc. Is the lock bolt the screw in picture #8?

You Note: “The standing breech is part of the hook and tang style brech. It is the part that remains in the stock and receives the hook on the end of the barrel. Below are photos of standing breeches and hooks.”

I’m a bit mentally challenged. In pictures #2 & #3 I believe l see what looks to be the standing breach and hook that go into the stock. But the standing breech and hook appear to be one component attached to the barrel. You clearly note that the standing breach remains in the stock. I appreciate your reply.
Also is the tang part of the barrel? Beautiful pistols!
 
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Grenadier1758

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Do you have a set of gunsmith quality screwdrivers with blades that precisely fit the screws and bolts on your pistol? Those slots are easy to mar up with poor fitting screwdrivers.

The tang is part of the standing breech.

In pictures 2 & 3, the bolt seen is the tang bolt. It should be threaded through the stock into the trigger plate.

In picture 8, the left side of the pistols, the lock bolt is seen above the trigger. It goes through the stock and is threaded into the lock plate.

Manton is an exceptional gun builder and the parts of a Manton pistol will match up so precisely that it will appear to be one piece.
 
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Tumbler

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Do you have a set of gunsmith quality screwdrivers with blades that precisely fit the screws and bolts on your pistol? Those slots are easy to mar up with poor fitting screwdrivers.

The tang is part of the standing breech.

In pictures 2 & 3, the bolt seen is the tang bolt. It should be threaded through the stock into the trigger plate.

In picture 8, the left side of the pistols, the lock bolt is seen above the trigger. It goes through the stock and is threaded into the lock plate.

Manton is an exceptional gun builder and the parts of a Manton pistol will match up so precisely that it will appear to be one piece.
Thanks for asking, Yes I have gunsmith tools and hardened hollow ground screwdrivers. The reason I’m asking so many questions is it is a Manton and I don’t want to make any mistakes.

So the part that looks like a dagger in pictures #2 and #3 is the tang? When you lift out the barrel the standing breech and “dagger” (tang?) comes with it?

So you loosen the lock bolt remove the tang screw and it slips right out? There has to be more steps. There was a mention of a hook inside the lock or stock. You lift up the end of the barrel to release the barrel from the hook? If you raise the barrel (which slides on to the standing breech and tang) won’t that bend the tang as it is loose but flush with the stock. Again thanks for all your help.
 
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Tumbler

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This is a nice off topic tutorial on the function of a lock. I’m new to the forum and hope this is ok.
 
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Tumbler

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This is also off topic but a good introduction to lock disassembly. Unfortunately I haven’t seen a tutorial on the disassembly of the barrel.
 
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Zonie

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Thanks for asking, Yes I have gunsmith tools ...

So the part that looks like a dagger in pictures #2 and #3 is the tang? When you lift out the barrel the standing breech and “dagger” (tang?) comes with it?

So you loosen the lock bolt remove the tang screw and it slips right out? There has to be more steps. There was a mention of a hook inside the lock or stock. You lift up the end of the barrel to release the barrel from the hook? If you raise the barrel (which slides on to the standing breech and tang) won’t that bend the tang as it is loose but flush with the stock. Again thanks for all your help.
There are two different kinds of breech plugs. The breech plug is the plug that seals off the rear of the barrel. The breech plug should not be removed from the barrel under normal conditions.

On one kind of breech plug, the tang (the dagger like thing) is a part of the breech plug. The plug and the tang are one piece.
1595023979834.png

With this kind of breech you must remove the screw that holds the tang to the stock to remove the barrel.

On the other kind of breech plug, rather than having a tang sticking out of the rear, it has a "hook" sticking out of the rear. This type of system is called a "hooked breech". Some others call the two parts a "standing breech" when they are working together although I usually call just the part with the tang on it the "standing breech"
1595024421770.png

This hook engages a hole in the standing breech. The standing breech is the second half of the system that holds the rear of the barrel into the stock. It is the part that has the tang (dagger) on it and it is the part that is screwed to the stock. When the barrel is removed, the standing breech remains behind still screwed to the stock. You do not remove the screw with a standing breech design. You mearly lift the muzzle of the barrel and the hook disengages from the standing breech.

You are right when you say "there has to be more steps" to remove the barrel.
Towards the muzzle of the barrel there will be either one or more pins or on other guns like the one you linked to, it uses a flat metal wedge pin to hold the barrel to the stock. To remove the barrel, drive the wedge out of the stock far enough for it to disengage from the tab that is on the underside of the barrel.

Once this wedge is disengaged, pull upward on the muzzle of the barrel. It should lift out of the stock and as it does, it will automatically disengage the breech hook from the standing breech.

(My thanks to Track of the Wolf for the two pictures I posted.)
 

Tumbler

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There are two different kinds of breech plugs. The breech plug is the plug that seals off the rear of the barrel. The breech plug should not be removed from the barrel under normal conditions.

On one kind of breech plug, the tang (the dagger like thing) is a part of the breech plug. The plug and the tang are one piece.
View attachment 37165
With this kind of breech you must remove the screw that holds the tang to the stock to remove the barrel.

On the other kind of breech plug, rather than having a tang sticking out of the rear, it has a "hook" sticking out of the rear. This type of system is called a "hooked breech". Some others call the two parts a "standing breech" when they are working together although I usually call just the part with the tang on it the "standing breech"
View attachment 37166
This hook engages a hole in the standing breech. The standing breech is the second half of the system that holds the rear of the barrel into the stock. It is the part that has the tang (dagger) on it and it is the part that is screwed to the stock. When the barrel is removed, the standing breech remains behind still screwed to the stock. You do not remove the screw with a standing breech design. You mearly lift the muzzle of the barrel and the hook disengages from the standing breech.

You are right when you say "there has to be more steps" to remove the barrel.
Towards the muzzle of the barrel there will be either one or more pins or on other guns like the one you linked to, it uses a flat metal wedge pin to hold the barrel to the stock. To remove the barrel, drive the wedge out of the stock far enough for it to disengage from the tab that is on the underside of the barrel.

Once this wedge is disengaged, pull upward on the muzzle of the barrel. It should lift out of the stock and as it does, it will automatically disengage the breech hook from the standing breech.

(My thanks to Track of the Wolf for the two pictures I have posted).



.
 
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Tumbler

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I have listed the steps to remove the barrel and would greatly appreciate it if the missing or incorrect steps could be filled in.

1. Make sure the gun is not loaded.
2. Move the hammer to half cock.
3, Remove the lock bolt.
4. Remove the lock.
5. Unscrew the tang screw.
6. Partially drift the pin located on the side of the stock to disengage the barrel.
7. Gently lift the barrel from the muzzle and slide out the barrel.
 
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Tumbler

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There are two different kinds of breech plugs. The breech plug is the plug that seals off the rear of the barrel. The breech plug should not be removed from the barrel under normal conditions.

On one kind of breech plug, the tang (the dagger like thing) is a part of the breech plug. The plug and the tang are one piece.
View attachment 37165
With this kind of breech you must remove the screw that holds the tang to the stock to remove the barrel.

On the other kind of breech plug, rather than having a tang sticking out of the rear, it has a "hook" sticking out of the rear. This type of system is called a "hooked breech". Some others call the two parts a "standing breech" when they are working together although I usually call just the part with the tang on it the "standing breech"
View attachment 37166
This hook engages a hole in the standing breech. The standing breech is the second half of the system that holds the rear of the barrel into the stock. It is the part that has the tang (dagger) on it and it is the part that is screwed to the stock. When the barrel is removed, the standing breech remains behind still screwed to the stock. You do not remove the screw with a standing breech design. You mearly lift the muzzle of the barrel and the hook disengages from the standing breech.

You are right when you say "there has to be more steps" to remove the barrel.
Towards the muzzle of the barrel there will be either one or more pins or on other guns like the one you linked to, it uses a flat metal wedge pin to hold the barrel to the stock. To remove the barrel, drive the wedge out of the stock far enough for it to disengage from the tab that is on the underside of the barrel.

Once this wedge is disengaged, pull upward on the muzzle of the barrel. It should lift out of the stock and as it does, it will automatically disengage the breech hook from the standing breech.

(My thanks to Track of the Wolf for the two pictures I posted.)
Zombie, regardless of the two breeches there there is a breech hook on the barrel. You angle the barrel up and out for the breech hook to bypass the standing breech.
 

Zonie

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Ummmm......
The name is Zonie, not Zombie.
"Zonie" is a sort of nickname for someone from Arizona. It is used in a derogatory way by the people in Southern California for tourists who come from Arizona to pack their ocean beaches during the summer. (We also pack their cash registers so they put up with us. :)
 

Tumbler

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Ooops, key board failure. Sorry Zonie. I was in a car on a bumpy road. Won't happen again. BTW I'm from N. California.
So if I have redeemed myself there is a breech hook on the barrel?
 

Tumbler

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I found this video on the disassembly of the barrel on a modern flint lock rifle. It appears very similar to the helpful information you all have provided. My (hopefully for everyone who has been so patient and helpful) last question for the 1800’s Manton pictured in this thread is, are there other steps in the disassembly or comments to address for the Manton. Thanks!
 

SASS249

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When we used to do long hunts in some of the North Carolina wilderness areas we camped quite a distance from any road or vehicle. Nothing can ruin such an experience than a spring breaking. We made a practice of carrying a completes set of replacement springs for our locks along with a mainspring vise. We also made sure everyone knew how to disassemble a lock. Only had one frizen sprong break but hving one with us saved someone a lot of walking and missing at least a day of hunting or more to get a replacement.
 

Tumbler

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As you probably know I am new to the forum and new to flintlock pistols and rifles. I hope soon to see what is like to shoot this type of gun. I can’t say enough how supportive you all have been.
 

Tumbler

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Ummmm......
The name is Zonie, not Zombie.
"Zonie" is a sort of nickname for someone from Arizona. It is used in a derogatory way by the people in Southern California for tourists who come from Arizona to pack their ocean beaches during the summer. (We also pack their cash registers so they put up with us. :)

Zonie,
What you and everyone said makes sense with this video. This video illustrates a hooked breach muzzleloader. I believe the Manton pistol is a hooked breech pistol as it appears that the tang and rear sight remain on the stock.
I found this video helpful where it shows the barrel being removed and replaced.
 
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