Flintlock lock disassembly

[Ben Meyer]

I'm semi new to flintlocks, so looking for some help. I bought a new lock, an L&R. It looks new, my gun doesnt. I've gotten good using Laurel Mtn Barrel Brown and know I can color it right. But I need to semi disassemble the lock. I've never done this. I've done a few things(frizzen and frizzen spring replacement, etc.) I need to take the hammer, frizzen and frizzen spring off. Anticipating this, I bought the best mainspring vise I could find at Friendship, from Jim Chambers.

Can someone give me a step by step on how I SHOULD go about taking the hammer off? Before I screw something up?

 

[tenngun]

It’s good to get a spring vise, works better then vise grips.
Put the hammer on full cock, put clamp on then disengage the hammer. Then the spring will slide off. Unscrew the bridle and remove. Undo the sear spring, then remove the sear and spring. Remove the fly and be careful with it as it’s invisible after removal.
Use two thin screwdrivers to wedge your hammer off tumbler. And the tumbler will fall out.
Compress the frizzen spring and lift off unscrew frizzen and remove.
I like to store the bridle screw in the holes they were fit in. I like to put a pice of scotch tape on them to keep them in. I fold a pice of tape over the fly and put it all in a baggie. Or for a quick disassembly lay it out on a white piece of cloth.
If you just want to take off the hammer. Put gun on half cock, unscrew the bridal screw then slide two thin screw drivers under opposite sides and gently tap using hand only to lift the hammer straight up. Don’t wiggle it you want it to lift straight up.

 

[Pete G]

The Track of the Wolf catalog has page devoted to this. It may also be on their web site. Chambers says to use a square punch to remove the cock from the tumbler. Be careful and don't lose the fly.

 

[Ben Meyer]

Frizzen and frizzen spring is EASY compared to hammer removal apparently!

Maybe I can apply barrel brown without removing the hammer???

 

[Sidney Smith]

Firstly, take a picture of the back side of the lock. This will let you know which way the parts are arranged. Then make sure to keep track of what screw goes where as they're not the same length. Place the sear, sear spring, bolster and fly, frizzen spring, etc in individual zip lock bags with their respective screws. This way when the time comes to reassemble you won't mix things up.

And use the spring vice. Vice grips will work in a pinch, but will launch the main spring across the room the instant you try to remove the spring from them
Trust me I know, that's why I have a spring vice now as well.

 

[Ben Meyer]

This is the vise I bought. Apparently works on large, medium and small springs, by changing the screw location.

 

[Grenadier1758]

The best method to remove the main spring is to use the hammer to compress the main spring prior to snugging the clamp to the spring. Release the hammer and the main spring can be lifted off the tumbler. You do want to take it apart to apply the browning solution.

 

[Ben Meyer]

I figured as much about wanting to take it apart. A previous reply outlined JUST taking the hammer off. That should be all I need to do, right(besides frizzen and frizzen spring removal)

The best method to remove the main spring is to use the hammer to compress the main spring prior to snugging the clamp to the spring. Release the hammer and the main spring can be lifted off the tumbler. You do want to take it apart to apply the browning solution.

 

[tenngun]

Frizzen and frizzen spring is EASY compared to hammer removal apparently!

Maybe I can apply barrel brown without removing the hammer???

Not a good idea. You don’t have to brown the inside, but to get you solution on the outside it needs to go on evenly. Hot or cold, solutions can get blotchy real easy.
For instance LM produces a beautiful deep brown, almost black finish that almost has a depth like a hot rods paint job.
But, if not applied right produces a coppery brown god awful ugly. I know because one gun took three times before I got it right.... and it’s a PIA to get a brown off.

 

[Zonie]

I'm semi new to flintlocks, so looking for some help. I bought a new lock, an L&R. It looks new, my gun doesnt. I've gotten good using Laurel Mtn Barrel Brown and know I can color it right. But I need to semi disassemble the lock. I've never done this. I've done a few things(frizzen and frizzen spring replacement, etc.) I need to take the hammer, frizzen and frizzen spring off. Anticipating this, I bought the best mainspring vise I could find at Friendship, from Jim Chambers.

Can someone give me a step by step on how I SHOULD go about taking the hammer off? Before I screw something up?

I've seen several things posted that I totally disagree with in this thread so I'll make a few comments.

First, do NOT attempt to pry the hammer off of the tumbler with a screw driver, chisel or wedge. There is too great of a chance of breaking the square drive on the frizzen and, prying against the face of the lock plate can and will scratch it up.

Do Not hit the mainspring with a hammer or any other steel object. If the mainspring gets a slight nick or ding on it, it will usually break at the site of the damage.

That said, here is how I suggest dissembling a side lock. Much of what I say has already been posted by others but I'll say it anyway.

TAKING A LOCK APART
1. Take a good look at the way the mainspring powers the tumbler. If it is just pushing against a spur on the tumbler, go to step 2. If the mainspring is connected to the tumbler with a link, get your camera and take several pictures of it before taking anything apart. That link will only work correctly with it installed one way and it is easy to put it together backwards. The link usually has an "S" bend shape so make sure you can see the way it is installed. If you don't have a camera, make a sketch of how it is installed on a piece of paper.

2. Bring the hammer/cock to the full cocked position. Install the spring vise on the compressed mainspring snugging it up. Don't attempt to compress the mainspring further by over-tightening it. Overtightening the mainspring can cause it to break.
With the vise installed, push up on the sear arm to release the tumbler. Rotate the hammer/cock forward and remove the mainspring from the plate.
If the lock uses a link between the mainspring and the tumbler, remove it.
There is a protrusion on the mainspring that is a slip fit into a hole in the lockplate. Slightly rotating the mainspring with the vise attached will allow the spring to be removed from the lock plate.
Sit the compressed mainspring and mainspring vise aside.

3. If the lock is a flintlock, remove the frizzen feather spring. The spring can be compressed with a pair of locking pliers with a piece of heavy cloth on the jaws to protect the spring. It doesn't take much force to do this and remember, you want to compress that spring ONLY ENOUGH to get it free from the lock plate. DO NOT over compress that feather spring or it will break.

Also, remove the screw that holds the hammer/cock onto the tumbler.

4. Remove the sear spring at the rear of the lock. It has a tab in the upper arm that holds it in addition to the screw. Just push it downward slightly and away from the plate and it will come off. Also remove the sear screw and the sear at this time after the spring is removed.

5. Remove the bridle that covers the tumbler. This will often expose the fly that is in the tumbler so make sure it doesn't fall off. Once found, remove the fly and stick it onto a piece of masking tape so it doesn't get lost.

6. You now need two supports to hold the lock plate on a table when it is face up with the inside of the lock facing down. The supports must be tall enough so that the tumbler will clear the table by at least 3/8 of an inch.
Place a support on one side of the tumbler and the other support on the other side of the tumbler with the tumbler hanging loosely down between them.

7. Now, you will need something to drive the square tumbler drive out of the hammer/cock. If you have a short piece of steel or brass rod with the ends square with the rod, get it. It should be slightly smaller than the square drive of the tumbler. A 1/4" drive socket wrench extension will sometimes work for this. ( I've also been known to get a large carpenter nail that will just fit down thru the threads that the hammer/cock screw was screwed into and I filed the point off leaving a flat surface on it.) I'll call this a "driver".

8. Place the "driver" against the end of the tumblers square drive (or the nail into the screw hole) and using a very small mallet or hammer, lightly tap the driver down, forcing the tumbler drive out of the hammer/cock. (The hammer/cock will be supported by the upper surface of the lock plate while your doing this).

9. It shouldn't take much force to drive the square drive out of the hammer/cock so start by just tapping. If it needs more force then increase the force of the blows a little.

10. If the lock is a flintlock there will be a screw that holds the frizzen in place. Removing the screw will allow the frizzen to be removed.

REASSEMBLING THE LOCK

1. Place the tumbler into the lock plate. While your looking at it, rotate the tumbler counterclockwise until the tumbler stops on the lockplate bolster. If it doesn't stop, rotate it until the spur that the mainspring will push on or the fork the mainspring link attaches to is pointing toward the front of the lock.
You will want the tumbler to be in the same position as it normally operates in when the lock is in the un-cocked position.
Rotate the lock so the outside of the lockplate is up and the tumbler is resting on a good support. A small socket from a socket wrench set will work nicely. If you don't have one remember, the small axle on the tumbler will poke a hole in whatever it is resting against when you install the hammer/cock.
Now, study the hammer/cock and determine which of the 4 positions it should be when it is in the "fired" position and start it onto the tumbler square drive.

2. Several light taps of a mallet should be enough to drive the hammer onto the tumblers square. Try to keep the underside of the hammer/cock parallel with the top surface of the lock plate while your doing this.
When you figure the hammer is all the way on, get a good flashlight and shine it into the gap between the hammer/cock and the lockplate. Look down into the gap and determine if the hammer/cock has been driven on so that its rear face is snugly seated against the 4 shoulders where the square drive ends. If it is, move on to the next step. If the hammer/cock is not against the ends of the flats, tap it on further.

3. Install the fly back onto the tumbler. If this is a Siler style lock the fly has a pin on it and it can only be installed one way. If the lock is one of several L&R locks, the fly is a thin piece of metal with a hole thru it. It can be installed two ways but only one of them will work correctly. Make your best guess when you install it but keep in mind, if the fly doesn't block off the half cock slot when the hammer is falling from the full cock position, the fly was installed backwards.

4. Replace the bridle and the sear. Note: The bridle screws can be fully tightened. The sear screw should only be slightly snug. The sear should rotate easily when its screw is tightened correctly.
If the lock is the L&R type, now is the time to test the fly. To do this, apply a downward pressure to the sear arm and pull the hammer/cock back to the full cock position. The nose of the sear should fully engage the full cock notch. Now, push up on the sear arm and slightly rotate the hammer/cock forward. After the full cock notch rotates above the nose of the sear, push downward on the sear arm with a moderate to hard pressure and continue to rotate the hammer/cock forward. If the fly was installed correctly the nose of the sear will hit it pushing it forward so that it blocks off the half cock notch.
Further movement of the hammer/cock should make the nose of the sear jump over the fly and the hammer/cock will continue to fall. If the sear refuses to jump over the fly, the fly was installed backwards so remove the bridle and turn the fly over.
Make sure the sear and fly are working correctly before you go on.

5. Install the sear spring. To do this, screw the screw thru the spring hole. The rear of the sear spring will be sticking upward. Use your thumb to push this end of the spring downward and continue pushing it down until the tab on the spring slips into the slot in the lock plate. Then, tighten the sear spring screw.

6. With the hammer/cock resting in the fired position, insert the mainspring (with the vise still holding it compressed) back onto the lock plate.
If the lock uses a link between the mainspring and the tumbler fork, install the link now.
Move the hammer/cock to the full cock position and remove the mainspring vise.

7. If the lock is a flintlock, replace the frizzen and the frizzen spring and if I didn'tmiss something, your done.

 

[EC121]

Don't put anything in the tumbler hole that will hit the bottom of the hole to drive it off the hammer. You can sometimes break the tumbler at the bottom of the threaded hole. Depends on how much metal is left between the hole and the little tit/axle on the tumbler, and how brittle the metal is.

Also it is tempting to leave the mainspring compressed in the vise while you are working on the parts. Don't do it. They will sometimes break.

I quit browning locks a while back. I polish them and cold blue them. The cold blue will wear and fade to a mottled grey. Then let it turn brown on its own schedule. I also do the barrel that way. Look at some pictures of the higher grade rifles and see how many are browned.

 

[Ben Meyer]

This gun isnt really brown. It has been "antiqued" by a gunsmith. What I've done to a frizzen and frizzen spring with LM Barrel Brown comes VERY close to a color/patina match. I put the LM on heavy and give to a full 12 hrs, rinse it with hot water and repeat a couple times. Then use a baking soda and water solution as the directions state. After a day, I 0000 steel wool it then coat with Barricade and let dry. It gives a very "aged" look that most importantly, matches alm the other metal parts.

 

[tenngun]

I wanted to be clear on lifting a hammer of the tumbler with screw driver. As said above you could snap the tumbler.
You have to use two from opposite sides and then lightly tap with your hands both at the same time. If you tap just one side it will bind it and may break the shaft. If you try to hammer it you can go too quick and bend a bit. You have to do it gently and equality on both sides.

 

[Tumbler]

I've seen several things posted that I totally disagree with in this thread so I'll make a few comments.

First, do NOT attempt to pry the hammer off of the tumbler with a screw driver, chisel or wedge. There is too great of a chance of breaking the square drive on the frizzen and, prying against the face of the lock plate can and will scratch it up.

Do Not hit the mainspring with a hammer or any other steel object. If the mainspring gets a slight nick or ding on it, it will usually break at the site of the damage.

That said, here is how I suggest dissembling a side lock. Much of what I say has already been posted by others but I'll say it anyway.

TAKING A LOCK APART
1. Take a good look at the way the mainspring powers the tumbler. If it is just pushing against a spur on the tumbler, go to step 2. If the mainspring is connected to the tumbler with a link, get your camera and take several pictures of it before taking anything apart. That link will only work correctly with it installed one way and it is easy to put it together backwards. The link usually has an "S" bend shape so make sure you can see the way it is installed. If you don't have a camera, make a sketch of how it is installed on a piece of paper.

2. Bring the hammer/cock to the full cocked position. Install the spring vise on the compressed mainspring snugging it up. Don't attempt to compress the mainspring further by over-tightening it. Overtightening the mainspring can cause it to break.
With the vise installed, push up on the sear arm to release the tumbler. Rotate the hammer/cock forward and remove the mainspring from the plate.
If the lock uses a link between the mainspring and the tumbler, remove it.
There is a protrusion on the mainspring that is a slip fit into a hole in the lockplate. Slightly rotating the mainspring with the vise attached will allow the spring to be removed from the lock plate.
Sit the compressed mainspring and mainspring vise aside.

3. If the lock is a flintlock, remove the frizzen feather spring. The spring can be compressed with a pair of locking pliers with a piece of heavy cloth on the jaws to protect the spring. It doesn't take much force to do this and remember, you want to compress that spring ONLY ENOUGH to get it free from the lock plate. DO NOT over compress that feather spring or it will break.

Also, remove the screw that holds the hammer/cock onto the tumbler.

4. Remove the sear spring at the rear of the lock. It has a tab in the upper arm that holds it in addition to the screw. Just push it downward slightly and away from the plate and it will come off. Also remove the sear screw and the sear at this time after the spring is removed.

5. Remove the bridle that covers the tumbler. This will often expose the fly that is in the tumbler so make sure it doesn't fall off. Once found, remove the fly and stick it onto a piece of masking tape so it doesn't get lost.

6. You now need two supports to hold the lock plate on a table when it is face up with the inside of the lock facing down. The supports must be tall enough so that the tumbler will clear the table by at least 3/8 of an inch.
Place a support on one side of the tumbler and the other support on the other side of the tumbler with the tumbler hanging loosely down between them.

7. Now, you will need something to drive the square tumbler drive out of the hammer/cock. If you have a short piece of steel or brass rod with the ends square with the rod, get it. It should be slightly smaller than the square drive of the tumbler. A 1/4" drive socket wrench extension will sometimes work for this. ( I've also been known to get a large carpenter nail that will just fit down thru the threads that the hammer/cock screw was screwed into and I filed the point off leaving a flat surface on it.) I'll call this a "driver".

8. Place the "driver" against the end of the tumblers square drive (or the nail into the screw hole) and using a very small mallet or hammer, lightly tap the driver down, forcing the tumbler drive out of the hammer/cock. (The hammer/cock will be supported by the upper surface of the lock plate while your doing this).

9. It shouldn't take much force to drive the square drive out of the hammer/cock so start by just tapping. If it needs more force then increase the force of the blows a little.

10. If the lock is a flintlock there will be a screw that holds the frizzen in place. Removing the screw will allow the frizzen to be removed.

REASSEMBLING THE LOCK

1. Place the tumbler into the lock plate. While your looking at it, rotate the tumbler counterclockwise until the tumbler stops on the lockplate bolster. If it doesn't stop, rotate it until the spur that the mainspring will push on or the fork the mainspring link attaches to is pointing toward the front of the lock.
You will want the tumbler to be in the same position as it normally operates in when the lock is in the un-cocked position.
Rotate the lock so the outside of the lockplate is up and the tumbler is resting on a good support. A small socket from a socket wrench set will work nicely. If you don't have one remember, the small axle on the tumbler will poke a hole in whatever it is resting against when you install the hammer/cock.
Now, study the hammer/cock and determine which of the 4 positions it should be when it is in the "fired" position and start it onto the tumbler square drive.

2. Several light taps of a mallet should be enough to drive the hammer onto the tumblers square. Try to keep the underside of the hammer/cock parallel with the top surface of the lock plate while your doing this.
When you figure the hammer is all the way on, get a good flashlight and shine it into the gap between the hammer/cock and the lockplate. Look down into the gap and determine if the hammer/cock has been driven on so that its rear face is snugly seated against the 4 shoulders where the square drive ends. If it is, move on to the next step. If the hammer/cock is not against the ends of the flats, tap it on further.

3. Install the fly back onto the tumbler. If this is a Siler style lock the fly has a pin on it and it can only be installed one way. If the lock is one of several L&R locks, the fly is a thin piece of metal with a hole thru it. It can be installed two ways but only one of them will work correctly. Make your best guess when you install it but keep in mind, if the fly doesn't block off the half cock slot when the hammer is falling from the full cock position, the fly was installed backwards.

4. Replace the bridle and the sear. Note: The bridle screws can be fully tightened. The sear screw should only be slightly snug. The sear should rotate easily when its screw is tightened correctly.
If the lock is the L&R type, now is the time to test the fly. To do this, apply a downward pressure to the sear arm and pull the hammer/cock back to the full cock position. The nose of the sear should fully engage the full cock notch. Now, push up on the sear arm and slightly rotate the hammer/cock forward. After the full cock notch rotates above the nose of the sear, push downward on the sear arm with a moderate to hard pressure and continue to rotate the hammer/cock forward. If the fly was installed correctly the nose of the sear will hit it pushing it forward so that it blocks off the half cock notch.
Further movement of the hammer/cock should make the nose of the sear jump over the fly and the hammer/cock will continue to fall. If the sear refuses to jump over the fly, the fly was installed backwards so remove the bridle and turn the fly over.
Make sure the sear and fly are working correctly before you go on.

5. Install the sear spring. To do this, screw the screw thru the spring hole. The rear of the sear spring will be sticking upward. Use your thumb to push this end of the spring downward and continue pushing it down until the tab on the spring slips into the slot in the lock plate. Then, tighten the sear spring screw.

6. With the hammer/cock resting in the fired position, insert the mainspring (with the vise still holding it compressed) back onto the lock plate.
If the lock uses a link between the mainspring and the tumbler fork, install the link now.
Move the hammer/cock to the full cock position and remove the mainspring vise.

7. If the lock is a flintlock, replace the frizzen and the frizzen spring and if I didn'tmiss something, your done.

Also there are some good YouTube videos on this. My question is how do you remove the barrel from the stock? I can't find this in a link here. This would be for an 1800's pistol. My first post.

 

[Tumbler]

I really like this YouTube video:

 

[user 36911]

Here's a good video for someone new to flintlocks.

 

[Zonie]

Also there are some good YouTube videos on this. My question is how do you remove the barrel from the stock? I can't find this in a link here. This would be for an 1800's pistol. My first post.

How to remove the barrel depends on how the gun was made.
Almost all of the old guns have a screw that holds the tang at the rear of the barrel in place. This screw may be a wood screw going into the wood or a machine screw that goes thru the stock and screws into a plate on the trigger.
Many old guns also need the rear screw in the lock plate (opposite the lock) removed. This not only loosens the lock but on many old guns, this screw goes thru a hole located under the tang in the rear of the barrel.

Most old guns use small pins that go thru the forestock wood and engage underlugs on the bottom of the barrel. There are also pins that hold the ramrod thimbles onto the stock. Usually the pins that hold the ramrod thimbles in place do not have to be removed but if you see similar pin holes near the thimbles, those are almost always there to hold the barrel onto the stock.
To remove the pins, use a short metal pin the same size or slightly smaller. Tap the pin with a very small hammer to drift the gun pin out.
It is usually best not to drive the retaining pins out of the wood all the way. Just drive them out far enough to be able to grab the exposed end with a pair of pliers and then use the pliers to pull the pins out the rest of the way.

Some full stock guns might use a screw thru the nose cap or thru the thimbles and nose cap to hold the barrel in place but this seems to be a newly invented way of retaining the barrel. I have never seen an original that did this.

If the gun has barrel bands or straps that go over the top of the barrel, these must be removed to remove the barrel. This is more common on military guns.

Hope this helps.

 

[Tumbler]

How to remove the barrel depends on how the gun was made.
Almost all of the old guns have a screw that holds the tang at the rear of the barrel in place. This screw may be a wood screw going into the wood or a machine screw that goes thru the stock and screws into a plate on the trigger.
Many old guns also need the rear screw in the lock plate (opposite the lock) removed. This not only loosens the lock but on many old guns, this screw goes thru a hole located under the tang in the rear of the barrel.

Most old guns use small pins that go thru the forestock wood and engage underlugs on the bottom of the barrel. There are also pins that hold the ramrod thimbles onto the stock. Usually the pins that hold the ramrod thimbles in place do not have to be removed but if you see similar pin holes near the thimbles, those are almost always there to hold the barrel onto the stock.
To remove the pins, use a short metal pin the same size or slightly smaller. Tap the pin with a very small hammer to drift the gun pin out.
It is usually best not to drive the retaining pins out of the wood all the way. Just drive them out far enough to be able to grab the exposed end with a pair of pliers and then use the pliers to pull the pins out the rest of the way.

Some full stock guns might use a screw thru the nose cap or thru the thimbles and nose cap to hold the barrel in place but this seems to be a newly invented way of retaining the barrel. I have never seen an original that did this.

If the gun has barrel bands or straps that go over the top of the barrel, these must be removed to remove the barrel. This is more common on military guns.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the detailed explanation. I should have showed the pistol style to you first. The style of pistol is here. Do the pictures below make specific steps for removing the barrel helpful to me to understand the process? Thanks

https://www.poulinauctions.com/exce...ntlock-dueling-pistols-by-joseph-manton-1822/

 

[dave_person]

Thanks for the detailed explanation. I should have showed the pistol style to you first. The style of pistol is here. Do the pictures below make specific steps for removing the barrel helpful to me to understand the process? Thanks

https://www.poulinauctions.com/exce...ntlock-dueling-pistols-by-joseph-manton-1822/

Hi, removing barrels from those is very simple. Remove the ramrod, tap out the barrel key (flat bar surrounded by oval, from the lock side. Don't try to pull it all the way out. It is likely captured by a pin to prevent it being completely removed and lost. Tap it with the end of a screw driver or tiny pin punch. Just slide it out as far as it goes easily. Then lift barrel up by the muzzle and unhook it from the standing breech. It may help to loosen the lock bolt so the lock is not pressing on the barrel.

dave

 

[Tumbler]

Hi, removing barrels from those is very simple. Remove the ramrod, tap out the barrel key (flat bar surrounded by oval, from the lock side. Don't try to pull it all the way out. It is likely captured by a pin to prevent it being completely removed and lost. Tap it with the end of a screw driver or tiny pin punch. Just slide it out as far as it goes easily. Then lift barrel up by the muzzle and unhook it from the standing breech. It may help to loosen the lock bolt so the lock is not pressing on the barrel.

dave

Thanks Dave and everyone. I'm almost there. There are two words I am not familiar with. Maybe I call them something else. I am not familiar with the terms standing breech and lock bolt. I read the thread "hook breach or fixed on a smoothie" and have looked at diagrams such as this: Flintlock Parts Diagram and I don't see these parts. Can you help me see where the lock bolt goes through the lock? In the Lock Disasembly Tutorial from YouTube that I posted above maybe someone can point it out. I should know this.