Flintlock identification required.

[Cornubian]

Hello all, firstly, thank you for allowing me to join your group.

I am seeking any information on this flintlock. I have tried to identify it using the web but I cannot find an exact match. I am sure someone out there will know what it is. If possible, a rough valuation would be very much appreciated.

Best regards

Steve

 

[user 48679]

Welcome to the forum !

It appears to be a non-military smoothbore musket , obviously made in 1796

After googling "1796 musket", I found it looks like an India Gurkha P-1796 Third Model BB

( P-1796 Gurkha Third Model BB Flintlock Musket )

Are there any visible identification markings in the metal at the bottom of the barrel (under the stock) or on the inside or outside of the lock plate ? ( I can't clearly see the ones in your pics)

Faint markings can often be better seen after a light rubbing of the area with a piece of white schoolboy's chalk.

 

[Conquerordie]

Guessing East India Company gun. The patina isn't even over the gun. Makes me a little suspicious. Caliber is right. For a musket.

 

[Shotgunblast]

Yes, would agree this is East India Pattern for Nepal with period parts added or scavenged from others probably because the Nepalese palace guard still uses them to this day.

 

[Shotgunblast]

International Military Antiques in the U.S. imported a couple thousand from the Nepalese Royal Armory. Check them out for information pertaining to your request.

 

[Shotgunblast]

https://www.nam.ac.uk/explore/53rd-shropshire-regiment-foot

 

[Cornubian]

Welcome to the forum !

It appears to be a non-military smoothbore musket , obviously made in 1796

After googling "1796 musket", I found it looks like an India Gurkha P-1796 Third Model BB

( P-1796 Gurkha Third Model BB Flintlock Musket )

Are there any visible identification markings in the metal at the bottom of the barrel (under the stock) or on the inside or outside of the lock plate ? ( I can't clearly see the ones in your pics)

Faint markings can often be better seen after a light rubbing of the area with a piece of white schoolboy's chalk.

Morning Pietro, thank you for the welcome. I bought the gun from a local museum and it was listed as a "1796 East India Pattern Musket". I bought a lot of items from the museum and several were incorrectly identified, so I was a little suspicious and wanted to ask the experts. Its time for me to sell the gun on. As such, would you have any idea as to its current value? Any help would be appreciated. Best regards, Steve.

 

[Cornubian]

Guessing East India Company gun. The patina isn't even over the gun. Makes me a little suspicious. Caliber is right. For a musket.

Morning Conquerordie, many thanks for the advice. Much appreciated. Best regards, Steve

 

[Cornubian]

International Military Antiques in the U.S. imported a couple thousand from the Nepalese Royal Armory. Check them out for information pertaining to your request.

Morning Shotgunblast, many thanks for the advice. Much appreciated. Best regards, Steve

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Hello all, firstly, thank you for allowing me to join your group.

I am seeking any information on this flintlock. I have tried to identify it using the web but I cannot find an exact match. I am sure someone out there will know what it is. If possible, a rough valuation would be very much appreciated.

Best regards

Steve

It is indeed a [British] United East India Company musket. The "V" in the symbol is a Romanized "U" as was the fashion at the time, to copy Roman stuff. The "4" is actually a ship's mast with a sail, ... well it's supposed to be....

The lock mortise is too good for it to be a replacement lock. The 53rd as a previous post gave information, had a battalion posted in India by 1805. Now the date on the lock is NOT the date the musket was made. It's the date the lock itself was made, and very well could've been on that musket in 1796, but more likely it was stored until it could be made into a musket, likely post 1800, as the engraving shows only one unit marking, and if it was made prior to the arrival of the 53rd, it likely would show the previous unit AND markings for the 53rd.

The engraving on the top of the butt plate is correct for the time and place, as the thumb escutcheon was omitted from this model Bess. The question would be then, did the 53rd Regiment of Foote obtain UEIC muskets after getting to India as replacements, or did they completely arm the battalion with them?

OH and I'm not sure, but it looks like the ramrod is wood? Can't tell if it's metal missing a tip or wood missing a tip, but all India pattern and later British made 3rd Model Bess had metal rammers.

LD

 

[OldSmoky1967]

It is indeed a [British] United East India Company musket. The "V" in the symbol is a Romanized "U" as was the fashion at the time, to copy Roman stuff. The "4" is actually a ship's mast with a sail, ... well it's supposed to be....


View attachment 166375

The lock mortise is too good for it to be a replacement lock. The 53rd as a previous post gave information, had a battalion posted in India by 1805. Now the date on the lock is NOT the date the musket was made. It's the date the lock itself was made, and very well could've been on that musket in 1796, but more likely it was stored until it could be made into a musket, likely post 1800, as the engraving shows only one unit marking, and if it was made prior to the arrival of the 53rd, it likely would show the previous unit AND markings for the 53rd.

The engraving on the top of the butt plate is correct for the time and place, as the thumb escutcheon was omitted from this model Bess. The question would be then, did the 53rd Regiment of Foote obtain UEIC muskets after getting to India as replacements, or did they completely arm the battalion with them?

OH and I'm not sure, but it looks like the ramrod is wood? Can't tell if it's metal missing a tip or wood missing a tip, but all India pattern and later British made 3rd Model Bess had metal rammers.

LD

It is a cut down version of the India pattern, which might explain the wooden ramrod, as well as only 2 ramrod pipes.. Probably the barrel was damaged and then cut. Still, neat and not a reproduction, but the tang screw appears to be a replacement.

 

[user 48679]

Morning Pietro, As such, would you have any idea as to its current value? Any help would be appreciated.

Sorry, but I have zero experience buying or selling those type guns...

You might get an idea on value via googling "India Gurkha P-1796 Third Model BB rifle for sale"

 

[user 33882]

Looks like a cut down East India Company 1771 Windus Pattern Musket named after Lieutenant-Colonel Edward Windus. That pattern was also adopted by the British as the "India Pattern" and used c. 1797–1854.