Flint Snapping, Rebounding Frizzen??

Discussion in 'Flintlock Rifles' started by Smokey Plainsman, Sep 14, 2019.

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  1. Sep 14, 2019 #1

    Smokey Plainsman

    Smokey Plainsman

    Smokey Plainsman

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    Guys I’ve been test firing my new TVM flintlock and it’s really breaking the black English gun flints I have. Also it appears the frizzen is rebounding. Are my flints too short? Here is the lock at half cock. I’ve read the flint should almost touch the frizzed at half cock? Can the flint me moved forward in the jaws, leaving a gap between the jaw screw, or must it be bottomed out against the screw?

    [​IMG]

    Also I’m still dealing with an issue where if I snug the lock screw, and I mean just snug to where it won’t spin on its own, the set triggers start to act up and “stick” like the front pull is almost a two-stage pull.
     
  2. Sep 14, 2019 #2

    Zonie

    Zonie

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    I think your flint is too short and that is a good part of the problem.

    You can try moving it forward but if it is like mine, even with the cock screw very tight, the flint will move towards the cock screw when the gun is fired.
    The answer to this is to buy some longer flints but in the meantime try moving the flint forward and putting a wooden spacer between the rear of the flint and the cock screw. The little wood block or spacer will keep the flint from moving backwards in the jaws.

    As for the set triggers, as I said, the tightness of the lock screw shouldn't have anything to do with them.

    The tightness of the lock screws can move the lock inward towards the barrel and this can result in the end of the lock sear arm hitting the bottom of the hole it lives in, in the stock.

    IMO, it is a good idea to file about 1/16" off of the end of this sear arm to keep it from bottoming out in the clearance hole. (Before anyone freaks out, the nose of the sear that contacts the tumbler notches is hardened but the arm is almost always left soft. Also, the length of this sear arm is almost always at least 1/8" longer than it needs to be when the lock is installed in most custom made guns.)
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2019
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  3. Sep 14, 2019 #3

    BruceHH

    BruceHH

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    What Zonie wrote is good advice. How about taking a picture of the lock inlet - with the lock out. If you can get the clarity and the angle you have above, we may be able to see something and help you. What would really help is if you could coat the entire surfaces of the lock parts with inlet black, soot or even a black magic marker - put it back in and cycle it a bunch - then take it out and send us those pictures. If you use a magic marker, take a picture of the inside of the lock also. Make sure you coat the tip end of the sear arm. We are looking for any location where any moving part may be contacting wood.
     
  4. Sep 14, 2019 #4

    Larry (Omaha)

    Larry (Omaha)

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    The flint is too small. Space it to see if it works or cut a piece of hardwood shaped like a flint. You will then see if the frizzen works properly. A frizzen spring can also be too stout for the gun, and or the main spring too weak.
    Zonie has a good suggestion about the triggers, but I would like to expand that a tad. If it were me, I would measure the sear end length and compare it to where the trigger bar intersects. Most generally the sear is too long, but don't assume.
    Flintlocklar
     
  5. Sep 15, 2019 #5

    chuck-ia

    chuck-ia

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    I think the half cock location in the tumbler varies from lock to lock, on some the flint almost touches the frizzen, on one of mine the flint looks like yours on half cock. I would think if you moved the flint to almost touch the frizzen on yours the flint might hit the pan when fired? Like others have said, I would try a longer flint, I would also make sure the flint does not hit the pan in the fired position.
     
  6. Sep 15, 2019 #6

    EC121

    EC121

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    Go to TOTW and look at their flints. They tell you which ones to use for a certain brand lock. Alternatively you can measure from the cock to the frizzen at halfcock and allow some for frizzen clearance.
    Then with the cock all the way down you can measure to the pan to see what clearance you have there. The flint size is somewhere in the middle of those two distances.
     
  7. Sep 15, 2019 #7

    hanshi

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    I have a couple of locks that are much like yours when at half cock. There's no way I could install a flint that would almost touch the frizzen and not cause other problems. What I do is position a flint so that it will strike the frizzen as correctly as possible and at the right spot when fired. Very few problems with function after this is done. Ya' don't always have to have them perfect, just reliable.
     
  8. Sep 15, 2019 #8

    Zonie

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    Now that you mention it, I do have one flintlock that can have a problem if I move the flint too far forward when the cock is at the "half cock" position.

    With the flint moved too far forward, it will crash into the bottom of the pan when the cock is in the fired position. With this in mind I'll suggest that if someone moves the flint forward and they put a block of wood between the back of the flint and the cock screw, before firing it, they should push the frizzen forward and then slowly pull the trigger and slowly lower the cock down to the fired position.
    If the flint clears the bottom of the pan, all is good. If it doesn't, move the flint back a bit so it clears the bottom of the pan.
     
  9. Sep 16, 2019 #9

    Smokey Plainsman

    Smokey Plainsman

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    Yes, I in fact, did this, and this was the size recommended for the Chamber’s Late Ketland, and also on the Chamber’s website.

    I shall try longer flints.

    In addition, I tried removing material from the sear arm and this did nothing to help the issue. It appears the front trigger gets “pinned” in some way, that I can move it back and forth manually, but this leads to almost a two-stage like feel when the rear trigger is set. The front trigger creeps back a tad before it stops then the light “break” of the set trigger. Hard to explain. Perhaps another parts is rubbing on wood in there? You guys recommend inletting black?
     
  10. Sep 16, 2019 #10

    Zonie

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    IMO, if firing the gun without the rear trigger "set" does not show this sign of "creep" in the front trigger then there is nothing dragging.
    It's just the way your particular set trigger feels when your shooting with the rear trigger set.
     
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  11. Sep 16, 2019 #11

    Smokey Plainsman

    Smokey Plainsman

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    I just tried it without setting the trigger.

    There is no creep.

    The “creep” is only when first pressing on the rear set trigger. Interesting...

    As for flints, there is a good half inch between flint and pan bottom when the cock is fully down. It appears I need a lot longer of a flint? Curious. It appears my lock does not work well with the recommend flint sizes from Chambers and Track...
     
  12. Sep 16, 2019 #12

    EC121

    EC121

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    The tumbler notches might not be quite the same. I always buy a larger than recommended flint. It is easy to grind them down or notch the leather. You don't want the flint in front of the vent. The vent jet will sometimes crack a flint or blow it loose.
    If the front trigger is creeping, it might not be adjusted sensitive enough. Try screwing the adjusting screw in until the trigger won't set. Then back it out until it does set and try it.
     
  13. Sep 16, 2019 #13

    Flintleather

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    952FDB0E-F999-4603-A1C6-81AE3930995D.jpeg
    I use the 3/4” square flints on my Late Ketland. I mount them bevel down as shown and get about 80% of the frizzen scraped on firing. Flintleather
     
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  14. Sep 22, 2019 #14

    smo

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    Smokey,

    What size flints did you order?
    Those look like 5/8” ?

    Go one size bigger or maybe even two sizes bigger.

    My lock calls for a 3/4” x 3/4” , but I use a 7/8” x 3/4” ,bevel down.
     
  15. Sep 22, 2019 #15

    olskool

    olskool

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    one of your main problems is the flint is to short like others have said. I buy my flint from 'stonewall creek outfitters" they have the correct size and good flint. I have bought flint from other major big names and it was junk!
     

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