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Flash in the pan while hunting

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flyfisher76544

45 Cal.
Joined
Jan 28, 2005
Messages
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Alright folks, it seems lately if I leave my flinter primed for an extended period of time while out hunting I will have a flash but no boom. I have checked the powder several times prior to attempting to fire and all seems ok. Kept the powder to the side, tried it with 4f and 3f, made sure to wipe it down with alcohol etc etc. Do I need to just wait until I am ready to fire or what???? So far 3 deer and 2 coyotes have had near death experiences due to this....well I think the coyotes were laughing. I clean the gun every time after I have been out, swabbed with alcohol to remove any oil all that stuff. Oh, and yes I do pick prior to priming.
 
If your getting the pan to fire the problem is in the barrel powder. First off is it real black powder in the barrel? Second; are you leaving it loaded for extended periods of time where changes in temperature can cause the barrel to condense the powder (gets damp from temperature changes)? Third; perhaps you need to enlarge the touch hole; I like mine at .070 but you can go just a little larger.

If it has a patent breech then you have to make sure that is clean and dry before you load as well. I doubt those coyotes were laughing; more likely they were praying. :hatsoff:
 
It would help to know what gun this is. Factory or custom, but mainly the breech system. Is it typical, or a chambered breech plug type?
 
flyfisher76544 said:
Kept the powder to the side, tried it with 4f and 3f, made sure to wipe it down with alcohol etc etc.

I assume you are wiping the pan down with alcohol, perhaps some of the alcohol is getting into the flash hole and creating your problem.
 
I always fire my gun with a load in it to make sure there are no problems then load it for the next days hunt. I could never get the first shot out of a clean barrel to hit anything anyway, all my guns shot were I wanted them to after they were dirty.
 
How did it shoot at the range? Go off every time? 5 missfires while hunting would be frustrating.flinch
 
Are you sure you are getting all the oil out of the barrel before loading? Your main charge could be oil-contaminated. I use a couple of alcohol-soaked patches, then several dry ones to clean out oil before loading; using only dry patches won't remove all the oil.

Mike,

I have thought of doing what you suggest (I always do that with my centerfires), but was concerned about bore rusting in a muzzleloader. Have you had any problems with rusting as a result of leaving the gun uncleaned for such a long period?
 
Just wiping down the pan with alcohol.

Factory gun, using a .223 brush to clean the patent breech with a patch...even right before the hunt to ensure there is no oil residue left over.

After I have the initial flash, I pick and prime and the gun goes off with no hesitation. I guess I may need to open the touch hole a bit more maybe? I ordered it from RMC sports, believe its a White Lightning.

During range sessions she goes off every time, impressed a few folks on how quick she is
 
Some times I leave a very absorbant patch on the rod in the gun over night storing muzzle down. This is after I have done all the things others have suggested. I know this sound extreme, but have not had a flash in the pan. Having to fire that fouling shot I think might be causing your trouble. I don't have a remedy for that.
 
flyfisher76544 said:
Alright folks, it seems lately if I leave my flinter primed for an extended period of time while out hunting I will have a flash but no boom. I have checked the powder several times prior to attempting to fire and all seems ok. Kept the powder to the side, tried it with 4f and 3f, made sure to wipe it down with alcohol etc etc. Do I need to just wait until I am ready to fire or what???? So far 3 deer and 2 coyotes have had near death experiences due to this....well I think the coyotes were laughing. I clean the gun every time after I have been out, swabbed with alcohol to remove any oil all that stuff. Oh, and yes I do pick prior to priming.

Are you filling the pan with powder? Does the lock leak the powder out leaving just a little in the pan?
Too little prime is a major cause of misfires. 3/4+ full is about right for priming a pan. Bigger fire, more heat, better ignition. Does not affect speed in the slightest. Nor does vent height. Banking the powder away from the vent SLOWS ignition. Based on Larry Pletchers testing with timers.

Or. Second choice.
Poor vent or poor liner design. Improperly installed
liner.
Breech has a fouling/oil trap that can't be washed out easy.
Number of possibilities. Vent problem is top of the list though.
Picking the vent is a waste of time if the vent liner is good especially with a clean bore.
If I had a vent I had to pick all the time I would fix it.

A properly installed liner should place the main charge within .030-.040 of the pan.
If its longer flashes can occur even with a clean gun.
Some would recommend enlarging the vent. But diameters over .062 are not needed with a good liner.
If the barrel does not have a vent liner then order a 1/4" version of the Whitelighting from Jim Chambers Flintlocks and install or have it installed by someone who knows how.
Dan
 
Being pretty new to flintlock black shooting and hunting, I am trying everything I can think of. Here are a few things I have noticed on my .50 cal. TC Hawken.
Opening the flash hole to 5/64th works but no better than leaving it alone so probably the smaller (stock) flash hole is better. I don’t see much degrading in the barrel powder but I do in the pan powder. I have been dumping it after about an hour of setting and repriming the pan. I leave a feather in the flash hole while the pan is unprimed, seems to help, someone told me they did it so I do it. I think 3f lasts better than 4f when hunting. I use TC Bore Butter and it seems to keep fouling soft and no rust, at least for a few days. Just some observations I have made.
 
Hi Fly,
I can tell you from 15 years of trying, if it is a T/C -replace it with another brand. Lost 3 deer to guns that would not go off and I tried everything suggested plus a few of my own ideas.
Hardly ever happened at the range. I believe that some of their patent breeches are bad.

If it is a Lyman or Pedersoli - try working with them. As it has already been said, use real black powder in the barrel.
Time between shots seems the issue 'cause it doesn't misfire at the range. Are you using 91% alcohol or plain rubbing alcohol - only about 5% alcohol?
If you use real BP, real 91% alcohol, reprime occasionally, use a fresh main charge daily, store the gun in the same conditions you will be hunting in and pick the main charge between shots, that's all you should have to do. If those don't work, I'm guessing you have patent breech problems.
Finnwolf
 
Alright, think I may have found the issue. Touch hole wasn't even a 1/16th inch hole. Its a Pedersoli and I have been extra careful about this breech. Just seems if I am sitting in the woods for a while, I just get the flash. So hopefully drilling her out a bit will fix her. Thanks folks, keep all the good info coming.

Plus I am looking at getting a smoothbore here in the future........and of course she'll be a flinter as well!!!!!! :hatsoff: Just so I can shoot ball or shot for some small game as well!!! :thumbsup:
 
The only alcohol I use is denatured alcohol. I don't pick either; I want the barrel powder kissing right out the vent hole and I don't bank powder away. Never a problem with the TC flinters I have. The old locks were a problem for me at one time but never had issues with barrel igniting if the pan flashed. Keep tinkering with it and you will find it.
 
AH! Are you using a thin pick to open a hole in the powder charge as it sits in the flash channel on that rifle? If seating a PRB or any kind of wad forces both air and powder down into that flash channel, it can pack it tight. That is why I recommend using FFg powder in flintlocks. It doesn't pack so tightly. However, in patent breech guns, you are almost forced to use FFFg powder in order to get some granules close to the Touch Hole.

If there is NO powder in the flash channel, you are almost guaranteed to have a " flash in the pan", because the heat of the flash cannot travel all the way down the flash channel to the center of that powder chamber in the breech! YOu don't want the flash channel packed solid, nor the Touch hole closed because powder is packed full and tight at the entrance. Instead, the goal is to have SOME powder in the flash channel, and an open vent so that flame and heat can start more than one or two granules right at the mouth of the TH.

Close the frizzen before loading the powder and PRB down your barrel. Then, use a thin wire to open up a hole in the powder located inside the TH in the flash channel. Now prime, and close the frizzen again. You should be fine.

With those flash channels, I would rather see you open up the flash channel one drill size, and polish the heck out of it, rather than being drilling the TH larger. The larger flash channel will elongate the hole into the powder chamber, making it easier for powder to come through the powder chamber, into the flash channel when loading. By closing the frizzen, you prevent a lot of powder from being blown out the vent and lost, affecting your consistency of velocity, and therefore accuracy. Take care in opening your frizzen after loading this way. you may find it full of powder already, especially if the TH is too large! :shocked2: :thumbsup:
 
1/16 is pretty small. Try to get a vent that has the inside coned and is about .070 in hole size. I also believe in 2f powder for flinters; I know 3f works just fine but was advised by a few respected individuals years ago about 2f in flinters and follow their advice. It seems the bigger granuals provide more air space and hotter ignition. I also never liked the metal containers for powder; seems they could cause some problems with moisture as well. It should be an easy fix for you if you study the problem. The vent is probably the problem.
 
Walks with fire said:
1/16 is pretty small. Try to get a vent that has the inside coned and is about .070 in hole size. I also believe in 2f powder for flinters; I know 3f works just fine but was advised by a few respected individuals years ago about 2f in flinters and follow their advice. It seems the bigger granuals provide more air space and hotter ignition. I also never liked the metal containers for powder; seems they could cause some problems with moisture as well. It should be an easy fix for you if you study the problem. The vent is probably the problem.

Every single gun of mine has a 1/16 vent hole. I load with 3F and use 3F to prime and brought home a lot of venison. :v
 

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