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first firing of my first muzzleloader

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William Rishel

Pilgrim
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Hello, everyone. First time to shoot my first muzzleloader this past weekend. Learning a lot from the Forum and my own experience. Got a Traditions Pennsylvania longrifle, percussion ignition 50 cal. Beautiful gun, at least to me. I grew up in Pennsylvania and some of my ancestors were blacksmiths, so they could have worked on these weapons. Anyway, Pyrodex RS, starting with 50 gr with patch and ball. Pretty mild . Then I loaded 100 gr and tried a maxiload 275. Those shots kissed me on the cheek. Just had fun with it, I'll sight it later. First lesson... You can clean too much between shots. Had some misfires. Stopped the bore butter after each and got better results. Also, to clean the nipple, I found those little dental microbrushes works pretty well. :bow:
 
You are learning. That max load should be a one time thing. Gross overload. Nothing to gain and possibly dangerous.
Don't know what you mean by stopping the BB. Your patches need to be lubed with something. BB isn't bad for that.
Keep us informed on your progress.
Welcome to TMF and our insanity. :grin:
 
Welcome to the Forum. :)

It sounds like your on the way to discovering a very enjoyable hobby.

I've shot a lot of Pyrodex in my percussion rifles and I found that after the first shot the fouling seemed to stay about the same.

Yes, the second shot was a little more difficult to ram down the bore than it was when the bore was clean but it was fairly easy to do.

I could shoot all day without wiping the bore even once and the accuracy didn't seem to suffer from doing this.

Next time when your at the range you might want to try leaving the 'wiping' out of the loading process and see how it goes.

(When shooting real black powder I have to wipe the bore about every third shot or the fouling buildup makes loading difficult).
 
I'm biased so I'll recommend prb over conicals. That's what these rifles were designed for, anyway. Enjoy! :thumbsup:
 
not sure what your rate of twist is, but if the barrel will shoot conicals with any degree of accuracy, you are probably in the 1:48 range, which will also stabiize PRB (Patched Round Ball).

Like Hanshi, I am biased in favor of PRB, and I recommend that you give it a try if you have not already done so.

To wring the maximum possible accuracy out of your rifle, you should get a copy of Dutch Schoultz' pamphlet. (his website is
http://www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com/

and his stock may be getting low, so get your copy as soon as you can - it is money very well spent, in my opinion).

You will be surprised at how well your rifle can shoot, once you get a load worked up.

Your .50 cal will be more than enough gun top take white tail deer out to 80 yards or better if you do your part as regards shot placement. (if you just want to punch paper, you should be able to keep your shots on a file card at thirty five to fifty yards)

this takes practice (the cool stuff always does) but getting there is half the fun.

welcome to the wonderful eccentricity of muzzleloading!
 
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I just started shooting the BP rifles this summer after being a long time BP pistol shooter. So I am still pretty green when it comes to the long arms. But I have discovered the guys are right about the PRB. It is a bit more acurate for me and the recoil is nowere near the recoil of a conical. I have a bunch of conicals and I likely will use them up eventually but they do not get shot near as often as the PRB's.
Besides I am shy of the conicals, shortly after getting my first bp rifle I decided I would load it for bear and see what a heavy conical with a heavy charge would feel like. The bruise didn't go away for 2 weeks! :redface:
 
Finchly, they are sweet ain't they? I once owned a Trapdoor Springfield in .45-70, the most damage done was a sore trigger finger from firing for 2 hours.

Personally for anything under .60 caliber I don't fire anything over 100 grains. Congrats on your rifle, good old muzzle loading Long Johns were and remain to this day one of the most accurate of rifles.

Bones
 
Tony Howard said:
Personally for anything under .60 caliber I don't fire anything over 100 grains.

i wouldnt recomend firing anything thing over 100 grains of powder. i fired my 69 cal rifled musket once with 90 grains of powder.... wont do that again. a 69 cal ball weighs in around 480 grains and when you put 90 grains of 2F behind the bugger it bucks like a rodeo bull.

i know a few guys who put 100+ grains behind RBs but its on 50 cal rifles and they are shooting for serious distance.

from what ive read around here and a few other forums, 70-80 grains of powder will pretty much handle most critters out to just over 100 yards.
 
Thank you for the kind words.
Because of a middling response on the Forum, I have found a less expensive method of production and have added some 35 new copies of the System. Which should last a while.

Dutch Schoultz
 
"Anyway, Pyrodex RS, starting with 50 gr with patch and ball."

This is a starting load which I used to train children to shoot during YHEC practices. However, we did not get good accuracy from Pyrodex, so I use 2f and 3f Goex. Contrary to popular opinion, 3f worked best for me in a .50, but I move to 2f for .54 and 20 guage.

"Then I loaded 100 gr and tried a maxiload 275. Those shots kissed me on the cheek."

You likely need a copy of the Lyman Black Powder Hand Book. Seems like you are reaching a bit for the hot end of the scale and need a reliable resource to guide you.

"Just had fun with it, I'll sight it later."

I love to make smoke and thunder too!

"First lesson... You can clean too much between shots. Had some misfires."

This is a patent breach, so you can build residual moisture down there and foul subsequent shots.

"Stopped the bore butter after each and got better results."

The bore butter seems to goop up bores in my experience and I was not getting the best accuracy. I am not so sure that Bore Butter is directly to blame for the misfires. Rather, I suspect wet patches used to clean the BB are the actual problem there.

But here is my thinking, less junk in the bore = less need to clean that junk out.

I am a fan of putting as little as possible down my bore. Dutch's dry patch is one good method. Spit patches (or water from a spray bottle) are another. I find that with these a very slightly moistened patch is all the cleaning that I will need between shots - if any at all. I have set the bore butter aside. Spit or water for the range and mink oil for hunting.

CS
 
My .50 caliber Traditions "Shenandoah" (33.5 inch barrel, 1:66 twist) Pennsylvania Long Rifle really likes a target load of 47 grains of Swiss FFFg black powder and a swaged Hornady .490 ball with a .016" denim cut patch.

It shoots smallish one-hole 3 shot groups at 25 yards off the bench and a bit larger one-hole, 3-shot groups at 50 yards off the bench.

Recently, due to cost, I switched over to Goex ($14 a pound vs. $23 a pound for a pound of Swiss) and so far, it hasn't made any real difference at 25 yards.

However, I feel fairly sure it will make a difference at 50 yards due to the Swiss powder's higher velocity because everyone sez that Goex FFFg has to be increased 10% to 15% in the amount of powder used to match the higher velocity of the more powerful Swiss black powder.

I haven't had a chance to "bench" the Shenandoah at 50 yards yet, so we'll see... but I have to believe so many good shooters are probably correct.

BTW, I'm also using a .060" thick vegetable fiber wad between the patched ball and the black powder in the rifle.

I got these wads from John Walters in Moore, Oklahoma. It is his "standard" over powder vegetable fiber wad for a .50 caliber muzzle loader. His phone number is 1-405-799-0376 and since I've been using his over powder wads, my groups have gotten noticeably smaller and the fired patches are in such good shape that they could be used over again.

However, prior to using the over powder wads, none of my fired patches were burnt or damaged, but they didn't look as good as they do now.

I credit the smaller groups to the wads giving me a more consistent muzzle velocity... but I could be wrong since I haven't chronographed any loads yet.

Good luck... and make GOOD smoke... :thumbsup:


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.
 
I've used Pyrodex and didn't care for it. Then tried 777 and was nice..but expensive. So I switched to Goex 3f and I'm hooked on it! I had a Penn. rifle from traditions and they are a NICE rifle. My patch shooting load was 50 grains of 777 with a .015 patch lubed with ox yoke. My hunting load was 80 grains (of 777)with a .015 patch lubed with olive oil..either one of those combos made that rifle shoot like a photon torpedo! The only thing I didn't like about it was the fact ya had to either pop the pins to clean it..or clean while the barrel was still in the stock..which risked getting the wood wet.
Make sure ya dump some rubbing alcohol and swab her out good after a good lubing and long storage.
Good luck and have fun with it!
 
... stopped the Bore Butter ...

I was having a similar problem. One of the guys at the last meet showed me his method, and it works better for me than using lube between shots.

He places a patch on his tongue after starting the ball with his starter. Next, he takes the spit-patch off of his tongue and centers it around his jag with the wet side facing out. He shoves the ball down the bore with the spit-patch-coverd jag, gives a slight twist, then pulls out the rod. After that, he turns the spit-patch over to the dry side and slowly shoves it back down the bore, twists it to the right, and pulls it back out. It cleans quite a bit of fouling out and dries the bore just enough. The next shot is easy to load without getting moisture down in the firing chamber.

For me, this method have been good for at least 10 shots, and every shot seems to load and feel the same as the one before it, with the same amount of pressure going down, and no misfires.

Good luck.
 
I'm new to this forum, but not new to smoke poles. Been at it since '76. Killed a number of Bambis, Yogis and Wapiti with TC rifles. I wonder why it's taken me so long to find this Forum, it's certainly a great recource, and you folks have certainly taught an "Old Dog" some new tricks. I shoot a Tennessee long rifle that I built from a Track Kit. It has proven to be a real tack driver, and I must say that some of the info I've gleaned from the contributors here, has enhanced my appreciation of the sport. This Tennessee is a Pecussion,42" GW Barrel, 1:70 twist.It will shoot a .490"cast PRB (.015 cotton patch, lubed lightly with Mink Oil),over a fiber wad, or wasp nest material, ahead of 50 gr.2F black Goex powder, into a 5" gong, offhand at 50 yds all day, If, of course, I do my part. (Sometimes my part ain't adequate). I have found that Mink oil patch lube is less intrusive than some of the denser patch lubes and leaves a slightly cleaner bore. I swab with a denatured alcohol patch between shots to produce consistant accuracy. I have also experimented with 3F, Triple 7,( 3F T7, lights off better than 2F T7) and using the same 50 gr. charge, and load combo, I get even better velocity and impact approx 1" higher at the same range. I still swab between shots with denatured alcohol and find the bore considerably cleaner than BP.
I've used a load of 90gr Triple 7, fiber wad and a 250 gr. R.E.A.L.cast bullet, lubed with Mink oil, at 100 yards, shooting over crossed sticks, and have been able to consistantly hit an 8" gong (of course, if I miss, it's undoubtedly my fault. I've found that most rifles shoot better than I do).The R.E.A.L bullet is about the same length as a RB and gives good accuracy in the slow twist barrel. Great combo. Incidently, with all above target loads, I run a clean dry patch down the barrel, after loading, to clean any grease and fouling from the barrel forward of the load, before firing. This seems to produce greater accuracy.Just ramblings of an "Old Dog". I hope it helps.
 

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