FFFg in 50 Cal Hawkin?

Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:

Joined
Oct 1, 2020
Messages
568
Reaction score
766
Location
Deep South, Y’all
I have been using more 3f, because it works and that is what I have the most of on hand. I deliberately went to it in my Pedersoli .62 Trade Gun because I felt 2f was not getting down near the touch hole and this was causing slow ignition. True or not I do think (feel?) that the 3f is better in this application. I do plan on smoothing and opening up the touch hole liner to help as well, although since switching to 3f as a main charge I really have not felt the need. But since when is leaving well enough alone a solution to anything? ; )
 
Joined
Jul 25, 2021
Messages
725
Reaction score
567
Location
East Northport NY or Marlow NH
It's a common misconception that you need gobs of powder for "hunting" loads. Let's do a quick comparison. A mundane "powder puff" load used by us N-SSA shooters is about 45g 3f and a 500gr bullet. Translate the 2/3f thing and that's about 50g of 2f. Couple in Swiss being the hottest powder you can get and suddenly you're at about 53g equivalent to a service load. Next, that pokey fat 500gr soft lead minie is trucking along at about 1100fps. Now do the maths and you'll find that's darn near 44mag territory. If a musket with a "powder puff" load is too light, then the 44mag is as well.

The real issue is the horrible ballistic coefficient of a round ball. That entire concept is based around the round ball being the absolute worst bullet design out there. It sheds velocity faster than probably any other shape. That said, it's put game on many tables through the years.

So do you "really" need gobs of powder? I think being able to shoot accurately is far more important, even with a round ball
The article in question had talked to accuracy as well. With your description basically equivalent in the case of a 54 round ball. He keeps his game shots at no more then 60 yards out. Some of what he was trying to explain is that if you can keep a .40 up to a .54 inside the diameter of a 7 inch paper plate; you are in the kill zone of a deer for the calibers noted. I was just surprised at the 100 grains of 3f he likes. Before I took my .50 apart to address the flash in the pan issue I was shooting 80 then I read 80 to much. Tried 60, 65, 70, the ball at 80 was now off the target. 😂 I need a bigger background to see where it’s going I believe high. 65 seemed okay but the verdict is still out as i shot a few balls at the target because the FIP was annoying me!
Thank you for the great feedback!
 
Joined
Jul 25, 2021
Messages
725
Reaction score
567
Location
East Northport NY or Marlow NH
My load is 90 by weight of OE 3F in my hunting load under a Lyman Plains and 80 gr again weighted under a 50 gr Lyman Plains all shot from 2 TC Renegades 1-48 twist It kills most anything I will shoot within 200 yds
What would be the effect on a barrel.50 with a 1 -66 twist swamp barrel ? Twist rate experts please chime in.
Thanks
 
Joined
Mar 13, 2020
Messages
4,656
Reaction score
11,123
Location
On the Border in Idaho looking at BC
What would be the effect on a barrel.50 with a 1 -66 twist swamp barrel ?
the same effect as any other barrel. how your barrel shoots is totally dependent on many factors completely seperate of the numbers of f's on a label.
if you shoot ffg well, then use the same patch, lube, ball size, and maybe just reduce the powder charge 10%.
personally i always start with a base charge of grains of powder equal to the bore size . go up or down as needed for accuracy.
 
Joined
Jul 25, 2021
Messages
725
Reaction score
567
Location
East Northport NY or Marlow NH
the same effect as any other barrel. how your barrel shoots is totally dependent on many factors completely seperate of the numbers of f's on a label.
if you shoot ffg well, then use the same patch, lube, ball size, and maybe just reduce the powder charge 10%.
personally i always start with a base charge of grains of powder equal to the bore size . go up or down as needed for accuracy.
Thanks! I was curious if the muzzle rate in your rifle considered a more modern rate than the 1 - 66 in my Lancaster. I can’t see past 50 so I’m really now curious because I hear guys shooting beyond my sight range with Lyman and other similar fashion rifles.
Thanks!
 
Joined
Jul 25, 2021
Messages
725
Reaction score
567
Location
East Northport NY or Marlow NH
my GPR is 1-66 and i use whatever is in my flask, horn etc. i have found it likes ff a little better.
my 1-48 rifles like fff best with prb.
i have a 1-28 that likes ff behind conical. it won't shoot prb worth wasting powder trying.
i don't include the g following the f's as i don't glaze my powder.
Home Brew? Nice! I learned something new! Great day! Glazed powder!
 

45man

32 Cal.
Joined
Feb 25, 2004
Messages
641
Reaction score
313
I don't think it matters, just need a workup to find accuracy. Just like changing powder brands.
 

RobtJoki

32 Cal
Joined
Nov 18, 2022
Messages
3
Reaction score
5
Location
Portland OR / Mammoth Lakes CA
My answer only concurs what others have said, but yesterday, (after 45 years in the build), I did the very first firing of my Astorian flintlock which is 50cal and extremely similar to the Hawkins.

I had a variety of FF FFF and FFFF to choose from, but for the first firing, I started with 60 grains of Schutzen FFF, and a splash of the same FFF in the pan (about half the pans actual capacity). The Haddaway lock with the small pan charge of FFF fired off so fast that I had to wonder if I actually had a flintlock - lol). The 60gr. main charge with a .490 ball and .010 patch spit right downrange without much of a spank.

As the gun is new - I'm yet to bench test it for accuracy with that combo but will soon.

I was set to test a variety of combos, (and probably still will mess a bit with ball size and patch thickness, but I doubt that I will move away from the initial success of the FFF as both the 60g. main charge as well as the short splash of FFF in the pan. It was lightning quick.
 
Joined
Mar 3, 2022
Messages
347
Reaction score
498
Location
Idaho
I've burned a lot of 3f in my 54's with patched round balls. 90 grains was deadly accurate and certainly not over pressure.
 
Top