Fastest .58 Twist

[nkbj]

Got an old TC .56 barrel set back that had an uneven interior when I got it in a swap around. Been threatening to maybe get it outfitted with rifling to use with minies and ball but just haven't taken the time to send it off yet.

So what's the fastest .58 twist you've used?
48" twist is not unusual being what was chosen for the P58 (1858 model) and it's special tapered groove depth. Are there any with a quicker twist?

 

[Grenadier1758]

When deciding on a twist (and the associated groove depth), the first step is to select a projectile. Will it be a patched round ball, greased conical or paper patched conical? What will be the intended target?

You need to know the answers to these questions when you send the barrel off.

 

[Stony Broke]

I just sent one off recently to Bobby Hoyt that was a TC .56 smoothbore with a not so good bore. He is going to ream it to a .58 smoothbore for me. I'm looking forward to playing with it.

 

[hawkeye2]

Getting a barrel to shoot both minies and round ball well can be a challenge as minies require very shallow groves as opposed to balls. One in 48" is a real fast twist for a minie gun and I have never known of anyone shooting them in a faster twist. When I have Hoyt line a barrel it's 1 in 60" which he claims to be his most accurate. All of the US issue arms were slower than that and they shoot well. Unlike a solid slug a mini with its center of mass concentrated in the foreward part stabilizes well in the slower twists.

 

[nkbj]

When deciding on a twist (and the associated groove depth), the first step is to select a projectile. Will it be a patched round ball, greased conical or paper patched conical? What will be the intended target?

You need to know the answers to these questions when you send the barrel off.

As stated, it won't be a projectile.

Sorry, was in a hurry. It won't be just one.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Is the projectile a patched round ball, minie ball, solid conical, or a paper patched conical?

It appears that you are looking at is likely to be close to be 1 in 48" with 0.006" groove depth.

Good luck in your search.

 

[BrownBear]

My fastest are 1:48, actually 4 of them, in addition to a couple with slower twists (Hawken types rather than shallow groove minie launchers). If I found one faster, I'd be tempted to try it. The 1:48's shoot round balls and solid bullets equally well, and over a surprisingly wide range of powder charges. The only minie I've had success with is the LEE Improved Minie with its thicker skirt and big meplat. It doesn't shoot well till you get up to 80 grains of 2f and quite well at 100 grains. I'm guessing it takes that much to expand the thick skirt. For versatility I can report it's going to be hard to beat 1:48.

 

[arcticap]

Ex1811 on Alaska Outdoors bought a .58 custom barrel from Oregon Barrel Works with a 1 in 32" twist that was 32"- 34" in length, made to fit a Renegade stock.
He wanted to shoot a 600 grain Maxiball type conical which it did quite well despite the stock developing a major crack due to firing it with a lead sled.
The muzzle was coned, and the rifling was .005 - .006 deep with musket cap ignition.

[Post #8] "Since you've started chatting regarding this thread, I'll give an update on progress of the build.
I have collected and am presently assembling all the components. I am taking my time, proceeding slowly and only rarely gain access to a friend's lathe and milling machine.
I'm using a Thompson Center Renegade stock with an original TC rubber butt pad. I've choosen to use TC Fiber optic front and rear sights and the addition of a Perdersoli Tang mounted Creedmore sight with a Hadley eye piece for longer than 100 yards shooting.
The barrel has been made to 34 inches, 1 to 32 twist with the first 1 inch coned out to aid loading. Grooves/lands are .005 deep.
I had to open up my conicals mold, as I wasn't getting the tight fitting lockup I wanted in the rifling. Carefully using my Dremel too I opened up the grove portion of the mold block to 59 caliber and I am now right at 605 grains. The conical then runs through my bullet sizer at .587 and I have good rifling contact with the finished product.
I installed three thimbles to capture the ram rod (fiberglass). R.E. Davis Deer Slaying trigger system.
Weight comes in at just under 10 lbs., which is about what I expected. Still deciding on blue or plum brown, although leaning toward plum brown finish. Progressing just fine so far. Will make a nice winter project."

[Post #14] "Well, here's the final update to this project build that I started over one year ago....to refresh the folks this is a purpose built 58 caliber 1 to 32 twist barrel, 32 inches long with a percussion musket cap ignition system. The barrel is a 1 inch Octogonal barrel and the rifling is cut at .006 deep. I built this rifle to hunt elk in the Rockies with Conical shaped bullets. I had a bullet mould built which is similar to the Thompson Center Maxi-ball shaped bullet, except rather than the TC conical weighs in at 555 grains, mine comes in at an even 600 grains. The finished conical bullet comes out of the mould a bit oversized for the barrel diameter but I run the conicals through a Lyman sizer die press and I'm able to lube them up at the same time. It's a very consistent sized bullet to load without the need of any patch.

Today I got to fire off the first shot on this new rifle. Woowser! This is a "Robust' beast to shoot. Now I'm a fair sized ol' boy, 6'2" 250 lbs. The first shot I took off hand with this gun lifted my front foot off the ground as it rocked my butt backward! I can't say the recoil hurt, not like a large bore magnum rifle is particularly a sharp smack but it pushed me more than expected. A lot more.... I had been leaning into the shot and still it had it's way with me. The load was 120 grains of 2F Goex BP and a 600 grain pure lead Conical MaxiBall. I put a round spot of leather between the charge and bullet for wadding. The next round I fired was with the assistance of a Cadwell leadsled. That round cracked the stock. Dang it! So I'm now scrambling to locate another Thompson Center Renegade stock and transfer the loose parts (including that nice soft rubber Pacmeyier Decellerator recoil pad) to the new stock. I continued to shoot another 25 shots with the cracked stock, figuring that it was already broken so what could it hurt.

As for performance on paper I am quite satisfied for the first day. I set up a 45 yard target and a 90 yard target. The targets I used have a 1" red dot bulls eye over a 9 inch diameter black circle. I figure anything inside the black circle is a kill for an elk sized animal. Off the Caldwell Leadsled I can hold 6 round strings inside the black at the 90 yard mark. I'm not getting cloverleafs yet but I am overlapping some rounds. The barrel is new and it will take some time to settle. But most assuredly this barrel is printing much better than my other 58 cal barrels, (a 28" 1 to 48 twist TC Hawken Barrel and a 32" Green Mountain 1 to 60 twist barrel).
At 50 yards I'm about four inches high for my zeroed sights at 90 yards. I'd like to see the trajectory spread tighten up some...I may have to experiment with a stiffer powder charge to increase velocity. Also I am quite fond of the manner in which the breach plug has been drilled. There seams to be a better access canal for the percussin charge to follow than that of the TC breach plugs I am used to. This fire canal is diagonally bored whereas the TC fire canal seams to be bored at right angles to the powder charge. The gun has been very responsive to sight adjustments made. I'd have to say that shooting these conicals seams quite a bit easier than shooting Patched Round Balls as the issue of a dirty barrel doesn't seam to be a problem like it can be with PRB's. Off course I need to experiment with a Chronograph to see what I can do with the velocity.

Overall summary, I think this barrel is going to be a winner." --->>> [Posts #8 & #14] http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/showthread.php/87890-58-Conicals-Rifle-Build?highlight=

The OP's thread regarding his decision on the 1 in 32" .58 twist rate:--->>> http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com...alk-about-building-a-58-cal-barrel?highlight=

 

[nkbj]

That's pretty much what I've been thinking on.
My fast twist long tom at present is a .52 bore converted renegade.

 

[nkbj]

Started trying out #575213OS with the adjustable length 3/16" radius hemi plug.
Never did get the blocks hot enough before having to go take care of other things (sigh).

Right now thinking that I need to see how long the bullets can be to stabilize in the 48" twist Armisport P53.

 

[nkbj]

Ex1811 on Alaska Outdoors bought a .58 custom barrel from Oregon Barrel Works with a 1 in 32" twist that was 32"- 34" in length, made to fit a Renegade stock.
He wanted to shoot a 600 grain Maxiball type conical which it did quite well despite the stock developing a major crack due to firing it with a lead sled.
The muzzle was coned, and the rifling was .005 - .006 deep with musket cap ignition.

[Post #8] "Since you've started chatting regarding this thread, I'll give an update on progress of the build.
I have collected and am presently assembling all the components. I am taking my time, proceeding slowly and only rarely gain access to a friend's lathe and milling machine.
I'm using a Thompson Center Renegade stock with an original TC rubber butt pad. I've choosen to use TC Fiber optic front and rear sights and the addition of a Perdersoli Tang mounted Creedmore sight with a Hadley eye piece for longer than 100 yards shooting.
The barrel has been made to 34 inches, 1 to 32 twist with the first 1 inch coned out to aid loading. Grooves/lands are .005 deep.
I had to open up my conicals mold, as I wasn't getting the tight fitting lockup I wanted in the rifling. Carefully using my Dremel too I opened up the grove portion of the mold block to 59 caliber and I am now right at 605 grains. The conical then runs through my bullet sizer at .587 and I have good rifling contact with the finished product.
I installed three thimbles to capture the ram rod (fiberglass). R.E. Davis Deer Slaying trigger system.
Weight comes in at just under 10 lbs., which is about what I expected. Still deciding on blue or plum brown, although leaning toward plum brown finish. Progressing just fine so far. Will make a nice winter project."

[Post #14] "Well, here's the final update to this project build that I started over one year ago....to refresh the folks this is a purpose built 58 caliber 1 to 32 twist barrel, 32 inches long with a percussion musket cap ignition system. The barrel is a 1 inch Octogonal barrel and the rifling is cut at .006 deep. I built this rifle to hunt elk in the Rockies with Conical shaped bullets. I had a bullet mould built which is similar to the Thompson Center Maxi-ball shaped bullet, except rather than the TC conical weighs in at 555 grains, mine comes in at an even 600 grains. The finished conical bullet comes out of the mould a bit oversized for the barrel diameter but I run the conicals through a Lyman sizer die press and I'm able to lube them up at the same time. It's a very consistent sized bullet to load without the need of any patch.

Today I got to fire off the first shot on this new rifle. Woowser! This is a "Robust' beast to shoot. Now I'm a fair sized ol' boy, 6'2" 250 lbs. The first shot I took off hand with this gun lifted my front foot off the ground as it rocked my butt backward! I can't say the recoil hurt, not like a large bore magnum rifle is particularly a sharp smack but it pushed me more than expected. A lot more.... I had been leaning into the shot and still it had it's way with me. The load was 120 grains of 2F Goex BP and a 600 grain pure lead Conical MaxiBall. I put a round spot of leather between the charge and bullet for wadding. The next round I fired was with the assistance of a Cadwell leadsled. That round cracked the stock. Dang it! So I'm now scrambling to locate another Thompson Center Renegade stock and transfer the loose parts (including that nice soft rubber Pacmeyier Decellerator recoil pad) to the new stock. I continued to shoot another 25 shots with the cracked stock, figuring that it was already broken so what could it hurt.

As for performance on paper I am quite satisfied for the first day. I set up a 45 yard target and a 90 yard target. The targets I used have a 1" red dot bulls eye over a 9 inch diameter black circle. I figure anything inside the black circle is a kill for an elk sized animal. Off the Caldwell Leadsled I can hold 6 round strings inside the black at the 90 yard mark. I'm not getting cloverleafs yet but I am overlapping some rounds. The barrel is new and it will take some time to settle. But most assuredly this barrel is printing much better than my other 58 cal barrels, (a 28" 1 to 48 twist TC Hawken Barrel and a 32" Green Mountain 1 to 60 twist barrel).
At 50 yards I'm about four inches high for my zeroed sights at 90 yards. I'd like to see the trajectory spread tighten up some...I may have to experiment with a stiffer powder charge to increase velocity. Also I am quite fond of the manner in which the breach plug has been drilled. There seams to be a better access canal for the percussin charge to follow than that of the TC breach plugs I am used to. This fire canal is diagonally bored whereas the TC fire canal seams to be bored at right angles to the powder charge. The gun has been very responsive to sight adjustments made. I'd have to say that shooting these conicals seams quite a bit easier than shooting Patched Round Balls as the issue of a dirty barrel doesn't seam to be a problem like it can be with PRB's. Off course I need to experiment with a Chronograph to see what I can do with the velocity.

Overall summary, I think this barrel is going to be a winner." --->>> [Posts #8 & #14] http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/showthread.php/87890-58-Conicals-Rifle-Build?highlight=

The OP's thread regarding his decision on the 1 in 32" .58 twist rate:--->>> http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com...alk-about-building-a-58-cal-barrel?highlight=

Aw, too bad he didn't post the results he had with the GM slow twist round ball barrel!

Long time ago a muzzleloading barrel maker told me that deep groove barrels can shoot long bullets quite well. The conversation never got around to twist rates. Experience says you have to have enough bullet inertia to get the bullet to expand into the grooves with the powder charge being used. More inertia means faster twist.