Fall Fronts and Waistbands

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I am making some narrow falls using the pattern as seen in "Comprising Rules & Directions for Cutting Men's Clothes by the Square Rule" by Amanda Jones 1822. My question is this: Are there examples of fall front trousers that did not have a waistband? I made some "mistakes" with this draft and construction (first and most "egregious" was scaling the entire pattern so it would fit my waist). Now I have a pair of "giant" small fall trousers that I am going to have to cut a foot of fabric off the legs/cuffs. I've gotten them to fit fairly well otherwise, but if I add a waistband (I've already added some muslin lining to them, so adding a waistband would include a lot of taking apart that I am not going to do) then the top really will be literally up to my armpits and I'll have the shortest galluses ever! I've made a lot of "modern britches" before (that sit low on the hips compared to "old timey" trousers), but only one other pair of fall fronts (broadfalls) - and that was back in '87 - a long time ago (back then, I used the pattern in one of the volumes of 'The Book of Buckskinning'). Just wondering if anybody has seen or heard of them making "pants" that did not include a waistband.
Thanks,
Rodney Johnson
 

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Straekat

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Short answer, no.

Material is cut in order to compensate for how the material will stretch or give with the grain of the woven material. The waistband and legs will stretch in different ways, and if you don't use a waistband, the band will quickly loosen on you to the point that you'll need a long adjustment strap in the back.

Before doing anything, use some cheap material and make a streamlined version that you can use as a mock-up, that is a little longer than crotch length, with no pockets, and nothing more than a roughly sewn together front flap without finished edges, etc. Use a throw-away mock-up before doing anything further to the pair you started on.

If you have an old pair of jeans you can use them to see how to make a workable pattern by cutting material and stapling it to the jeans so you get something you can use to make a workable pattern that can be drafted and used to adjust what you've done.
 
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Straekat, thanks for your reply. I've looked at hundreds of pics (on the web) of extant "britches" (from V&A Museum in UK to Metropolitan Museum of Art in NY, for example) - and haven't seen any without waistbands. Well, this first pair (or second pair if you count the pair I constructed in the 80's) will just have to be "weird" and non correct. I'll fix the pattern in CAD and reprint it and get to sewing on another one. The fabric is from an entire bolt of some kind of medium weight "canvas" type cotton material (patio cushion/curtain?) that I found at thrift for $11 (so it's excellent fabric and probably around 50¢ per yard).
 

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Stophel

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1822 is the era of high waist trousers and suspenders. I couldn't wear them, but that's the way they were. Of course, I'm not 5' 6" tall and 130 pounds either.

Unfortunately, virtually everyone today makes their 18th century breeches with this same ridiculously high rise, when it should be high in the back, but LOW in the front. Well below the bellybutton.
 
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Stophel,
Very interesting. Mine come up to an probably just an inch or so above my belly button in the front (they are definitely higher in the back - and I made them to fit a bit loose even without that cone shaped piece or the split "fishtail"). I have a big belly. And I've discovered that my 48" belly pooches out to 52" when I sit down (modern lower waist measurement is 45"). At one point, I hadn't put any buttons or button holes in the front closures yet and just held them with my hands and then happened to sit down and felt the two flaps slide farther apart. Fortunately I had made the second set (first set weren't anywhere near close to being long enough) what I thought was plenty overlong - turns out they were just about right accounting for the sitting posture of a burgeoning paunch. Otherwise I'd have been immensely uncomfortable in the seated position.
At some point, I don't really care how they usually wore their clothing back then - at 62, I'm insisting on comfort over fashion. It appears that "they" had some ridiculously impractical notions about fashion. And, at the risk of following the supposed "fad" of choosing a "lowly" worker or poor farmer persona (I read it somewhere on the internet - something to the effect of "everybody wants to dress like a poor farmer"), I don't mind looking like I made my own clothes as opposed to having tailor made duds. No wonder many adopted the clothing and customs of the "natives" as they were probably more practical and more effective in many ways. Here is a pic of my shirt and trousers (I later added a couple more buttons on the fall as a "stop gap" - to stop the gap! LOL - and hemmed the legs/cuffs). I think they may look passable at rendezvous.
 

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tenngun

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The first trouser I made I took a pair of navy dungerees and cut them in half at the sides, then down the middle. While not correct to the time they were cut an earlier style then blue jeans.
Laid them out on my skins and cut them out, sewed them together.
No waist band, no pockets, rude and crude.
Just maybe some one might have done such a thing in the past.. but it would have been just acs crude and ill fitting... and not correct to the time.
 
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