Factory built vs kit build value

[TexiKan]

I often tell other I should have opted for the factory finished Sharon Hawken rifle instead of the kit version because it took me forever to finish the gun and it cost me far more in tools, materials and time than had I simply purchased the finished rifle. I had anticipated something like a CVA kit. Wrong! That was back in the late 1970's or early '80's when it seemed more appealing to "save" the difference in the costs from factory finished to kit. Ha! Other than one nick that did not repair well, I continue to be pleased with the results and the Sharon remains as my prime rifle of choice to this day.

 

[Bassdog1]

Also good to remember that TC Sold factory finished barrels that had the K prefix to folks as extra barrels in different calibers. I still find one new in the box occasionally and they bring good money. I have shot Cherokee, Seneca, Renegade and Hawken barrels with and without the K prefix. and all were acceptable shooters that I couldn't see any difference in quality. The top priority with any BP or modern rifle purchase is knowing what to look for as far as condition of the bore and overall condition of the weapon. I have saw many guns for sale that were beautiful to look at until you ran a tight patch or borescope down the barrel. I love small bores and really enjoy TCs 32s and 36s. At a recent gun show I saw a really nice looking 32 Cherokee and asked the seller if i could check the bore on it he said sure but you should have saw the look on his face when I pulled out the small pen light the will slip down the bore of anything over 25 cal. Barrel had some pitting and he wouldn't budge off o the $650 asking price. As with anything if your not sure find a reliable and experienced BP shooter and seek their help and advice whether your buying a kit or factory gun.

 

[DOUBLEDEUCE 1]

Zimm,
I think your stock problem was the exception rather than the rule. If the barrel fit into the channel without the nose cap, and everything lined up, could you have adjusted the nose cap ? It was a kit. Sometimes things need adjusting. Simple. Ultimately, you were able to return your stock and it was replaced. If the light streak through the wood didn’t please your eye, nothing prevented you from returning that for hopefully something more pleasing. A color streak generally does not compromise the soundness of the wood. We’re you expecting French Walnut ? The American Walnut stocks on my pieces are all excellent. I would say even better than the walnut on my Winchester Model 70 and other arms…. None of which were cheap. You never did specify why your friend “refused” to sell any TC’s. Were his racks filled with CVA’s ?

The fire TC suffered at their factory I’m sure was no “BS”, unless you meant ‘burned stuff’. I guess there just isn’t any slack. That’s unfortunate.

I am one of those “most black powder folks”. I know all about the trials and tribulations of CVA. They still exist. They just don’t honor their lifetime warranty anymore on my rifle. The rifle I had a question about is over forty years old. It isn’t unreasonable to have limitations on things. Here in my state, if you get sentenced to “life in prison”, you are usually out in seven years. Doesn’t sound much like life or liife time to me.

For life time warranties on tools and such, J C Penny is still in business. I have not seen a tool section in one for forty years. I have some life time warranty tools from Montgomery Ward. Any of those around ?

I am very satisfied with my TC products. Maybe I just had better luck than some. It’s kind of like Ford vs Chevy, Maryanne or Ginger.

 

[david58]

Kit or factory? Look at the gun. A well built kit will usually have a nicer appearance than the factory gun, function will be the same.

 

[BrianL]

The kit built gun will only be as good as the kit builder. And no better than the components of the kit.

I disagree with this very strongly. You have to figure in the imagination and skills of the owner/builder. The many ways that you can enhance a basic TC Hawken, whether store bought or kit, are endless. I have eight or so and none of them are alike and none are in factory configuration. I thin the wrists, reshape the cheekpieces, etc.

 

[SOLANCO]

I disagree with this very strongly. You have to figure in the imagination and skills of the owner/builder. The many ways that you can enhance a basic TC Hawken, whether store bought or kit, are endless. I have eight or so and none of them are alike and none are in factory configuration. I thin the wrists, reshape the cheekpieces, etc.

Scratching my head at this. When I say "only as good as the kit builder" that includes his skills and imagination. And I suppose you can improve the quality of the build by replacing any kit components that are sub par. And yes a skilled creative builder can modify aspects of the kit.
I have an excellent imagination. But instead of 8 fingers and 2 thumbs I have 10 thumbs. So I don't build kits because I know I likely will not be proud of the results.

 

[BrianL]

I guess that I was referring to the thought of building the kit to the specifications of the Factory original. Even the factory guns are too fat in the wrists.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

The fire TC suffered at their factory I’m sure was no “BS”, unless you meant ‘burned stuff’. I guess there just isn’t any slack. That’s unfortunate.

A life time warranty has nothing to do with some machinery burning up. A life time warranty is undertaking a legal obligation to remedy defective parts for the life of the owner. That they had a fire did not excuse them from providing a non defective front sight. It was a BS excuse conveniently used to skirt their warranty on the Patriot Pistols. In Pennsylvania, under it's Unfair Consumer Practices Act selling an item with a promise of a lifetime warranty and then not honoring the warranty is a deceptive practice that can only be excused by an order from a bankruptcy court. CVA got such an order. TC did not. And TC should be sued for treble damages and attorney's fees whenever they refuse.

 

[Capnball]

Are kit built Thompson Renegades worth about the same as factory built units as long as they were assembled/finished correctly?
Can I assume a “K” prefix to a SN means it was a kit?

Thanks

I got a buddy who bought a Thompson kit in the 70s. It looked OK when it was done. After like 30 years of shooting it, he decided to clean it up and retire it to a noble place in his house over the fireplace. His Mrs said "could you clean it up a bit?"
That was all he needed to hear. He tore that gun down to it's base elements and refinished, refitted or repaired every single part. His years of gathered gun experience came to bare when he redid the rifle. When it was done it looked new but with a very unusual luster that only comes from years of handling and use. Absolutely worth more then it's sum of parts. Just beautiful! It stayed above his fireplace right up until hunting season started. Lol

 

[AFord]

TC guns were over rated and backed by a now worthless lifetime warranty. The flintlocks were subpar, meaning worse than CVA, because TC insisted on case hardened frizzens instead of proper carbon steel. About 60% of kit guns out there have fitment problems. Too many were finished by the slam bam thankyou method in a rush to get done. TC made some good guns, but not as good as their reputation. Consider the fact that their level of quality led to overwhelming warranty claims that bogged down their profitability. I figured they were going down over 25 years ago when they stopped honoring the warranty on the Patriot pistols. Had a front sights crack from an obvious casting law and they refused to replace it back then already.

Are you telling me that my TC Hawken 50 has LOST it's warranty??? I got it in 1980. BTW, this is a LOL.

 

[Scota@4570]

"Are kit built Thompson Renegades worth about the same as factory built units as long as they were assembled/finished correctly?
Can I assume a “K” prefix to a SN means it was a kit? "

Let me answer this again. IF I assembled it today, it would be better than factory. The fit, finish, styling and mechanical operation would all be superior to factory. However, most of them were assembled by beginners who did not know what they were doing. The one I assembled at age 14, was pretty sad. Each rifle will need to be judged on it's own merit.

Toward the end TC was using hot glue to bed the barrels. What was that about? It does not matter today, TC kits have been gone for 30 years.

TC-SW warrantee???
This warranty is granted by Smith & Wesson Corp. doing business as Thompson/Center Arms. This warranty is effective from the date of purchase for the lifetime of the original retail purchaser of any factory finished firearm. In order to be eligible for service under this warranty, the original retail purchaser must return a completed authorized warranty card or REGISTER ONLINE within thirty (30) days of purchase of such firearm. With respect to such firearm, this warranty supersedes any and all other warranties.

Since you can not meet the terms with your old TC ML you are s.o.l. on any "lifetime warrantee". The TC that made the rifle no longer exists.

 

[DOUBLEDEUCE 1]

Zimm,

Sued for three times the amount of the attorney fees ? That is over the top ridiculous, ambulance chasing, anything to be permanently aggrieved. That would not be the hill to die on. Three weeks in Maui vs a maybe a 98 cent part…. Whatever happened to overcome and adapt ? You said the pistol was given to you. Maybe the person who gave you the pistol either abused it or may have been negligent.

Having a catastrophic fire is not “BS” as you put it, and claiming it as an excuse simply does not hold water. Rebuilding a factory to produce a small inexpensive part to satisfy one unhappy camper, really ? Whatever happened to the ‘Spirit of the law’ rather than the “letter of the law’ ?

If this complaint was ever brought before me, it would be immediately dismissed. Waste of time, energy and effort. I doubt it would have adversely affected anyone’s lives. Loud rap of the gavel. Case dismissed. Drama class is held over at the local community theater.

Next….

 

[Grenadier1758]

I built a T/C Kit Hawken Rifle kit many years ago. As I recall in the instructions the life time warranty did not apply to kit rifles.

 

[Mulemauler]

The term :Kit Gun" is usually thought of as sub par because so many are poorly assembled by people with little skill and in to big of a hurry. While adequate I never considered "factory" finished guns all that great. A kit gun assembled by a skilled craftsman could be much superior.

 

[Grenadier1758]

I do know how my kit T/C Hawken performed. Much better looking than the factory finished rifles.

 

[mooman76]

I don't understand why someone would devalue a kit gun just on the fact that is a kit. A person could make a much better that factory gun out of it or a person could beat up and not take care of a factory gun. A person that does a very good job on a kit is much more likely to take good care of it. Yes some people don't do a good job building the gun. What id worth more, a crappy taken care of factory gun or a kit someone put lots of effort into building? I judge them on how they look, now what it was.

 

[Kansas Jake]

I built my TC kit in 1980. It probably won’t be for sale as it will go to a grandson.

 

[user 36911]

Some think kits get parts that are seconds. That's why the price it lower.

 

[Kansas Jake]

I doubt TC went to that trouble. The kits were cheaper because they required final assembly and finishing. That takes labor and materials.

 

[user 36911]

I doubt TC went to that trouble. The kits were cheaper because they required final assembly and finishing. That takes labor and materials.

Would you bet your life on that?