F.LLIPIETTA .44 Navy Revolver problem

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I have picked up a F.LLIPIETTA .44 cal. Navy revolver. I have another different brand Navy revolver and it functions fine but this one acts different. Question is is the cylinder supposed to spin free with the hammer at half cock? With the hammer at 1/2 cock on this revolver the cylinder will not spin. It is locked. Pistol functions fine if you just pull the hammer back as if you are going to fire it. Pull the trigger back and it will fire. The timing is perfect. Just won’t free spin at 1/2 cock. If this is not normal on this what could be causing the problem?
 

arcticap

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No, that's not normal and something could be bound up.
Here's a similar thread where the same thing happened to someone else after he cleaned and took apart his new revolver after it cycled fine in the store.

OP: Cylinder doesn't spin at half cock
Hey guys, just bought a pietta '51 navy colt today. Brought it home, took it apart and cleaned it up. Now the problem is the cylinder doesn't spin freely at half cock. I can rotate it as far as the next nipple (1/12 of cylinder turn) but then it locks up like at full cock. It was working fine in the store and for a while after I cleaned it, but now its not. Anybody know how to solve this?

reply 1: Probably! First off.... look in the side and see if it's the bolt that's locking the cylinder.
It should not be visibly extended at half cock.

reply 2: Did you take internal parts out and put them back in? Sounds like the bolt isn't riding on the hammer cam properly so isn't dropping into the frame properly. When you get to the next nipple, the bolt is falling into the cylinder stop and locking up the cylinder. Don't rotate it too much like that because if that is the case, the bolt will be scratching the bluing on the cylinder while you rotate it. Take the parts out again and put them back in paying close attention to the bolt, and how it's supposed to cam down when pulling the hammer to half cock. I think you just reassembled it wrong.

reply 3: Are you maybe drawing the hammer too far back, then letting it go to half cock? Or lowering it from fully cocked?
If you pass a certain point in drawing the hammer back, the bolt will pop up and lock the cylinder.
Try easing the hammer to half cock from the fired position into the half cock notch and observe the bolt. If it does not snap up, you're good to go.

reply 4: Take it apart to the point of removing the cylinder. Put back together without the cylinder. Carefully cock to half cock. You Should not see the bolt raised. If you do you have it installed incorrectly. If it goes down at half cock its not the bolt. Let us know what you see.

OP: Ripped it apart again and it's working now. Took me a while- I can now say I'm an expert at putting the thing back together again lol. thanks for the suggestions

reply 5: For pistols that have sat for a while
The internals get a little bound up resulting either the bolt not dropping back into the cylinder as it should or resulting in the bolt dropping too soon and the cylinder won't spin on half cock.

Taking it apart, cleaning it up, lubing it and putting it back together is probably a good initial fix for most pistols with that problem.

The Firing Line thread #520993

-------------

Here's another thread with a similar problem but a slightly different fix recommended.

OP: Pietta 1860 army half cock issue
I have a Pietta 1860 Colt Army that I have had for over a year and I have put over 1000 rounds through it.

Today at the range, I started having issues at half cock. When i went to the half cock position, the cylinder would no longer rotate freely, only about 1/4" and then stop. I took the pistol apart and it appears that the notch that holds the cylinder is now coming up at half cock. If I just pull the hammer away from the cylinder about 1/2", the cylinder rotates freely.

What do you think is wrong? Worn parts? (I assume that I can get spare parts at Cabelas). Are these parts hard to swap out?

reply 1:
Sounds like the bolt is overriding the cam on the hammer too soon. Spreading the legs on the bolt will probably solve your problem.

Here's a link to exploded views:

Link not working

reply 2: + 1

reply 3: +2

OP: Pietta 1980 half cock issue
Thanks for the info and diagram.

When u mention spreading the legs on the bolt, can u be more specific? ( I have not taken my pistol apart yet, and it is hard to see from the diagram what is required)
Thanks for your help!
Also, do you or anyone else have a step by step disassembly procedure?

reply 4: Photo #21 shows the bolt legs better. This was originally called the cylinder stop and some places still call it that.

Link not working
Disassembly.
Link not working

reply 5:
1000 rnds through it and it hasn't been fully broken down?? It might just need a good cleaning. Fouling could build up on the frame wall and prevent proper cycling of the bolt.
Dissasembly 101
1. Remove 2 top screws (either side of hammer),and one bottom screw that retain the grip and remove the grip & grip frame piece.
2. Loosen the main spring retaining screw and remove the spring (keep hammer uncocked).
3. Remove 3 screws holding the triggerguard in place and remove same.
4. Remove split leaf spring under the trigger guard.
5. Remove 2 screws holding in the trigger and bolt on the side of the frame, remove those parts.
6. Remove hammer retaining screw, lower hammer into the frame to allow removal of hand and hand spring, then remove the hammer through the top of the frame......easy-peasy!!
Assemble in reverse order.

reply 6: It could be cause it's fouling causing the problem, not knowing his shooting and cleaning procedures. I've gone over 1000 rounds in my match guns without having his problem though.

The Firing Line thread #474563
Google search - "1851 cylinder won't spin at half cock"
 
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arcticap

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One thing thing that's mentioned in the 1st thread to learn is that when the hammer is uncocked, try not to draw the hammer back all of the way to full cock and then bring it back down and leave it at 1/2 cock.
Doing that can cause the bolt to rise which can scratch the cylinder.
Once the hammer is brought to the full cock position, gently bring hammer back down all of the way to uncock the gun.
Then once uncocked, bring it back to the 1/2 cock position without going past it.

In other words, try not to bring the hammer down to rest in the 1/2 cock position from full cock.
Only go to 1/2 cock from the uncocked hammer position.

Whether this has anything to do with your problem or not, it's a good practice to not go from full cock to 1/2 cock.
Only go from the uncocked hammer position to 1/2 cock.
That's helps to keep your cylinder bolt in the down position and your cylinder from getting a scratch ring around it.
 

arcticap

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Thanks for the replies guys. Will try these fixes later today. I personally have not had this revolver apart. I received it in this condition.

Good luck and please let us know in this thread how it works out to provide some continuity for dealing with the problem.
This thread should be posted in the handgun forum so more folks can help you out if needed.
 
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sourdough

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Love this forum. Took the cylinder stop out and gently spread the fork. Reassembled the pistol and everything works just fine. Thanks again for all of the good advice on this problem. You guys are great help.

Make no mistake. Arcticap has a mind like a steel trap. I have no idea how he remembers or recalls the posts and links to them, but he is exceptional. Never distrust any advice he promulgates. While he is only 99% correct all of the time (I wish I could come anywhere close to that), if he is corrected about his posts he readily acknowledges it.

You would do well to follow what he says. I do and have never been disappointed.

Regards,

Jim
 

arcticap

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Thanks sourdough, you're too kind!

QUOTE="mjpchief, post: 1720303, member: 33411"]
Love this forum. Took the cylinder stop out and gently spread the fork. Reassembled the pistol and everything works just fine. Thanks again for all of the good advice on this problem. You guys are great help.
[/QUOTE]

That's wonderful news. :thumb:
 

Schutzer

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Love this forum. Took the cylinder stop out and gently spread the fork. Reassembled the pistol and everything works just fine. Thanks again for all of the good advice on this problem. You guys are great help.

Hello, I have a BRAND NEW 1851 Navy and after only 20 shots it is having the same issue— cylinder locks in half-cock. And I knew it is brand new because the date stamp is “2021”. It seems that the Pietta 2020-2021 production year is troubled? It’s really frustrating to experience this in a new gun.
Anyway, you said you’d spread the fork and it solved the issue, which is great. Do you mean the fork on the bolt, or the spring? How did you spread it? I just want to be careful to not damage anything.
Thanks.
 

Schutzer

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Hello, I have a BRAND NEW 1851 Navy and after only 20 shots it is having the same issue— cylinder locks in half-cock. And I knew it is brand new because the date stamp is “2021”. It seems that the Pietta 2020-2021 production year is troubled? It’s really frustrating to experience this in a new gun.
Anyway, you said you’d spread the fork and it solved the issue, which is great. Do you mean the fork on the bolt, or the spring? How did you spread it? I just want to be careful to not damage anything.
Thanks.
Hello, yes, I believe the 2020-2021 production run is troubled (gee I wonder why), because I had exactly the same issue. I took my 2021 pistol to the range for the very first time, attracting a lot of attention, and it embarassingly locked up at the half cock like yours did, on the first cylinder. Ended up contacting Taylors, who graciously paid for the shipping for me to send it to them. They repaired it within a week (no exaggeration) and sent it back. It worked fine. It appears they replaced the hammer— I believe the first one’s cam was flat or misshapen.
Now, unfortunately, yet again it is locking up (after putting another 100 rounds through it or so). I took it apart, lubed it, re assembled, and it works well again. Will take it to the range again tomorrow, we’ll see what happens.
My guess is it’s an issue with the hammer cam and bolt. If it continues I’ll probably just buy a replacement hammer and bolt. But anyway, you should just contact Taylors, they are very accessible and the turnaround time was fast.
 
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All 4 of my recent production .36 Brassers started doing this. It started intermittently then it got to the point where at half cock , the bolt pops.

When I loosen the trigger spring screw, the problem stops but the gun should not be used like this.

I spread the legs of the bolt and it works, but as the gun gets dirty, it gets worse. They all can now be placed on half cock and the cylinder spins freely, but I have to be careful to not pull the hammer back too far because the bolt will then pop up.

I will have to find time to detail clean and polish the internals.

When the guns were new and clean, they did not do this. Fouling and grime may make the issue worse.

The recent guns are probably being fitted by less experienced workers, unfortunately. They will need some tweaking.
 
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Hello, yes, I believe the 2020-2021 production run is troubled (gee I wonder why), because I had exactly the same issue. I took my 2021 pistol to the range for the very first time, attracting a lot of attention, and it embarassingly locked up at the half cock like yours did, on the first cylinder. Ended up contacting Taylors, who graciously paid for the shipping for me to send it to them. They repaired it within a week (no exaggeration) and sent it back. It worked fine. It appears they replaced the hammer— I believe the first one’s cam was flat or misshapen.
Now, unfortunately, yet again it is locking up (after putting another 100 rounds through it or so). I took it apart, lubed it, re assembled, and it works well again. Will take it to the range again tomorrow, we’ll see what happens.
My guess is it’s an issue with the hammer cam and bolt. If it continues I’ll probably just buy a replacement hammer and bolt. But anyway, you should just contact Taylors, they are very accessible and the turnaround time was fast.
I have Ubertis I haven't detail cleaned in years that never do this

I guess it will come down to, we have to keep the new Piettas clean internally

I'm going to try Action Blaster through the holes in the frame to see if it might save having to totally take the internals apart every time. Turning all those screws over and over , if you shoot a lot, makes me worry about wearing the threads of the tapped screw holes out
 

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