Extremely frustrated

[jimdvan]

I've been shooting muzzle loaders off and on since 1977. In the last 2 years I've become more serious about it and have been diligent in writing down what works in each gun. Percussion and flintlock. I've spent countless hours shooting each gun from .32 to .54. Kibler SMR and Lyman GPR's. I am to the point of selling almost everything due to the inconsistencies I get from each of these guns. The past 2 days I've worked with my Kibler .40 and my GPR in .50, refering back to my notes and targets from earlier in the year when I found loads that worked really well. Now when I try the same combinations the guns aren't even close to the sights and not only do I not have target accuracy, I don't even have hunting accuracy at 50 yards off the bench.

I was wanting to take one of these guns deer hunting next week but I can't rely on either. It's not my eyes because I can take my cartridge guns and shoot under an inch with some of them at 50 and 100 yards.

Rant over.

 

[Tom A Hawk]

If you can provide some load details perhaps we can help.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Are you using prelubed patches that have deteriorated over time?

 

[Norman Brooks]

I bet you are not using real black powder. The fake stuff draws moisture and the accuracy goes away fast. Post what you are using for loads.

 

[Boomerang]

Ya, please give us your load data. I’m sure we can figure it out. It’s not rocket science. It’s just several pieces to a puzzle that we need to figure out one piece at a time.

 

[S.Kenton]

Yea, without load info on each we can’t really help.

 

[jimdvan]

Ya, please give us your load data. I’m sure we can figure it out. It’s not rocket science. It’s just several pieces to a puzzle that we need to figure out one piece at a time.

I'm using real black powder, .010" dry patches that I lube with water/Ballistol/soap mix. 2F Goex or 2F Schutzen, anywhere from 40 gr. to 60 gr. for the .50 and 35-50 grains of 3F Schutzen for the .40. In May these combos were working great. That's why I wrote everything down. All the powders are from the same cans, same caps; everything is the same.

 

[S.Kenton]

Those patches seem awfully thin… maybe thier breaking down? Have you found the spent patches to see what they look like? Also are you shooting from a sturdy rest?

 

[jimdvan]

The patches looked great after firing, same as in May. What I found with the .40, which is a Rice barrel, is it absolutely will not shoot with a patch thicker than .010". When I worked up loads for these and other guns, I tried numerous combos of powder, patches, lube, powder weight, blah, blah, blah. I spent hours on each one. That's why I wrote down all the info, and saved the targets, when I got the groups I wanted so I wouldn't have the trust my memory or reinvent the wheel.

Loads that worked in May are now not working with all the variables in components being the same. The temps and humidity are also similar.

I'm shooting from sand bags. The same table and bags I used in May. Not only are the loads not hitting to the sights now, I'm shooting patterns instead of groups.

 

[nit wit]

Try a .15 patch lube with spit.
Nit Wit

 

[S.Kenton]

Then it has to be human error, maybe your rest isn’t as solid as you think? Maybe your jerking a little when you shoot? Maybe you should have someone watch you shoot to see how steady everything is? Are you using your set trigger.. if so it should be fairly light.Another thing I just thought of… are you completely flushing the barrel with alcohol, after a long storage, before shooting?Just a few thoughts..

 

[The Crisco Kid]

I'd tend to agree with S. Kenton. It's like Mickey Mantle going into a slump. It's happened to me and the more frustrated I got the worse I shot. I don't have any advise either.

 

[Dusty_Traveler]

You could try letting someone else shoot your rifle to the same POA and see if the results are still all over the board. That would remove the only variable, since everything else has been proven to work.

Something didn't bump one of the sights out of whack, did it?

Have you checked your patches with a set of calipers? I ordered a bag of .010's and .015's from Eastern Maine Shooting Supplies and the .010's measured .007, and the .015's measured .010. I called and said something about it to them, and they acted like this was normal. I have since gone to sourcing my patch material elsewhere.

 

[S.Kenton]

Another thing to try is have someone else shoot your rifle, especially the caplock Lyman, I say the caplock because it’s the easiest for some one to simply pick up and shoot. I’d have them copy your load and shoot off a sand bag, just as you are.. see if your results are the same with a different shooter..

 

[Longone]

Could it be time for a nipple to be replaced?

 

[Tom A Hawk]

The patches looked great after firing, same as in May. What I found with the .40, which is a Rice barrel, is it absolutely will not shoot with a patch thicker than .010".

My .40 has a Colerain barrel and I had to go down to a .380 ball. Now, with a .015" patch its a real tack driver.

 

[jimdvan]

I'm confident its not my shooting. I can pick up any of my cartridge rifles and shoot small groups. It has to be something in the load chain. Tomorrow I'll revisit the patches and try some of the same thickness but different material.

 

[Tom A Hawk]

I'm confident its not my shooting. I can pick up any of my cartridge rifles and shoot small groups. It has to be something in the load chain. Tomorrow I'll revisit the patches and try some of the same thickness but different material.

And your 40 - 60 grain load is a bit on the light side for a .50. Also what brand of BP are you using?

 

[TDM]

I've been shooting muzzle loaders off and on since 1977. In the last 2 years I've become more serious about it and have been diligent in writing down what works in each gun. Percussion and flintlock. I've spent countless hours shooting each gun from .32 to .54. Kibler SMR and Lyman GPR's. I am to the point of selling almost everything due to the inconsistencies I get from each of these guns. The past 2 days I've worked with my Kibler .40 and my GPR in .50, refering back to my notes and targets from earlier in the year when I found loads that worked really well. Now when I try the same combinations the guns aren't even close to the sights and not only do I not have target accuracy, I don't even have hunting accuracy at 50 yards off the bench.

I was wanting to take one of these guns deer hunting next week but I can't rely on either. It's not my eyes because I can take my cartridge guns and shoot under an inch with some of them at 50 and 100 yards.

Rant over.

Hope you get things sorted out, curious to know the problem. I can sympathize, seems the harder I try to better my BP skills the worse I get.

 

[S.Kenton]

Might also try increasing your load increments by 5 grains, take three shots and see how it shoots.. 5 more and see how it shoots and so forth. I would t be afraid of using a .015 patch, for me the tighter the patch, the more accurate it shoots.. at least to a point. I have a Lyman’s Great Plains rifle, in 54 caliber, my load is 70 grains of goex 2f, .015 pillow ticking lubed with MAP,( murphys oil soap, 99 percent rubbing alcohol and ammonia. 1 part each) You could also try an over powder card. Take a spent patch and crumple it up between your powder and patched ball…