Exploding Shells - Timeline?

[Josh Smith]

Hello,

I can't seem to get a straight answer on this.

I was under the impression that there were exploding shells during the Revolutionary War period.

Got to talking to some folks, and they said that it was all solid balls, grape and cannister back then.

Then, I got to reading some more from another source, and it claimed that while cannon used only a solid ball, grape or cannister, howitzers had exploding shells available back a bit earlier than the American Revolution.

So I'm a bit confused. Can someone clear this up for me please?

Thanks,

Josh

 

[DutchmanDick]

If you read The Gun and Its Development by Greener, it seems that exploding shells, and mortars to launch them, existed as far back as the 1500's. In fact, the book describes something called a "partridge mortar", which had a cluster of barrels and could launch multiple shells at once!

 

[Josh Smith]

Thank you! I've not heard of that book, but will be looking into it!

Josh

 

[JMinnerath]

There are written reports from China during the Ming dynasty describing explosive shells.
The Venetians are believed to have been using them by the later 1300's.
The early ones were all fused, but they've been around a long time.

 

[flintlock75]

The standard europian artillery of the 1750-1796 period used a variety of projectiles.
Canon used, solid, cased and cannister loads.
Howitzers, used solid, cannister and explosive loads.
Mortars, used explosive shells.
The fragmenting expolsive shell for regular cannon was invented by Henri Shrapnnel about 1796. This allowd the use of explosive projectiles in a regular cannon. The howetzer was a hybred gun that could be used as a mortar or a cannon. Mortars and Howizers were classified by bore diameter ie 6", 8", 15" a Cannon was classed by the weight of the projectile ie 3 lb, 6 lb, 12 lb. Most of the explosive shell fragments that have been found on 18th cent, American battlefields are from mortars, the small size shells came from small pack mortars like the 4" Cohorn mortars, these shells are small and could be mistaken for a cannon ball. The references to early explosive shells were fired by early mortars and simple Howitzers but not True Cannon.

 

[George]

I can't seem to get a straight answer on this.

That's because there is no such thing as a straight answer.

Then, I got to reading some more from another source, and it claimed that while cannon used only a solid ball, grape or cannister, howitzers had exploding shells available back a bit earlier than the American Revolution.

Read Westward into Kentucky by Daniel Trabue. Here's an online link:
http://books.google.com/books?id=Y...result&resnum=1&ct=result#v=onepage&q&f=false

Read pages 115-118 for an excellent account from someone who was at Yorktown 1781 when mortars were in use.

Spence

 

[tg]

They likely pre-date the cannon. howitzer and mortar originaly being used with catapults and similar seige engines and projectiles of clay pots or something of the kind if I recall, the source escapes me at the time.

 

They likely pre-date the cannon. howitzer and mortar originaly being used with catapults and similar seige engines and projectiles of clay pots or something of the kind if I recall, the source escapes me at the time.

I would say that they do, indeed, predate cannon use. I would suggest one look into bombards, similar in function to a mortar, but different in design. Chambered pieces with thin walled bores. They were of, both, cast and stave and hoop contruction.

 

[DutchmanDick]

I would say that they do, indeed, predate cannon use. I would suggest one look into bombards, similar in function to a mortar, but different in design. Chambered pieces with thin walled bores. They were of, both, cast and stave and hoop contruction.

And came in MONSTER sizes at times! :shocked2:

"Pumhardt" - really BIG 15th century bombard

 

[Josh Smith]

Thank you, Gentlemen.

Josh

 

[Josh Smith]

Hi Gents,

Would it then be fair to say that the rolling cannon (howitzer?) ball in the movie The Patriot which takes off a redcoat's leg before its fuse runs out and explodes its charge with the force of a modern hand grenade, would possibly be historically accurate?

Thanks,

Josh

 

[George]

Ran across an account which seems to indicate explosive shells in 1732, reported the South Carolina Gazette, thought you might be interested.

THE SOUTH CAROLINA GAZETTE
January 20, 1733

LONDON, Octob.30. We are advised from Lisbon the 28th past, N.S. That they had received the following most dreadful News, viz. That what they call a Thunder-bolt, had penetrated thro' the Tower of the City of Campo Mayor, (on the Frontiers next Spain, well Garrison'd) in which a Magazine of Powder and Warlike Stores were kept, there being then in it 182400 weight of Gunpowder, 400 Shells filled, & c. which the Lightning set fire to, by which the greatest Part of the City was in an Instant laid in Ruins, no more than the one half of 2 streets being left standing; above 1000 Persons were miserably shattered and torn, and many deem'd incurable. The Number buried under the Rubbish was unknown, but was undoubtedly very great, above 300 having been dug up before the Accounts came off. On Receipt of this News, the King of Portugal sent all the Surgeons, Apothecaries, &c. that could be found in Lisbon, to take Care of those wretched People.

Spence

 

[flintlock75]

The shells might have been for mortars, but the main story was 128,000 pounds of gunpowder going off not the shells exploding.
Early artillery such as Mons Meg(1482?) and the Great Bombardes used against Constantinoble fires stone balls that weighed 900 pounds. 16th Century Mortars did use explosive shells, early ones were loaded then the fuse lit ,then the gun fired, if the was a misfire of the gun, Run like Hell for cover, many gun crews got blown up due to this problem. Only in the 18th century did they use self lighting fuses, lit by the gun going off. Howizers were short bareled guns on a mobile carrige that coulf fire directly or indirectly at a target and could fire a variety of projectiles.
True Cannon did not fire explosive shells untill late in the 18th century, when henri shapnell invented them. From experience a solid ball impacting on a solid surface created a violent reaction, wood splintered, masonary shattered, the best defense was earthworks that could absorb the energy of the shot.What was shown in the movies was just the special effects to make it look better. Battalion support guns were fired at a low angle with solid shot in order to bounce the ball along the ground to sweep through massed troops, you did not want to just drop a ball into the ground as it would most likley just bury itself in place and do litte damage to those standing around it.

 

[trent/OH]

Then, I got to reading some more from Read Westward into Kentucky by Daniel Trabue. Here's an online link:
http://books.google.com/books?id=Y...result&resnum=1&ct=result#v=onepage&q&f=false

Read pages 115-118 for an excellent account from someone who was at Yorktown 1781 when mortars were in use.

Spence

Well that was an interesting bit of reading, once you get past the phonetic spelling, and I thank you for it. As I read it, a really good reenactor should be at least as good at digging as he is at shooting!

 

[George]

Yes, one of my favorite original sources, but, since I live right where he wrote about in Kentucky, I may be a bit biased.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the scenes of French mortars attacking Fort William Henry with exploding shells in the movie Last of the Mohicans, F&I war. I don't know about authenticity, but it was very well done.

Spence

 

[BrownBear]

Just to add to the mix of possibilities, archeologists up here have found the remains of ceramic exploding shells in known battle sites where the Russians (Shelikof, IIRC) were shelling the locals from ships late in the 18th century or early in the 19th century.

According to the archeos, ceramic shells were in wide use at the time of the Crimean War. I've handled several of the fragments found locally, and they looked to have come from shells around 2 1/2"-3" in diameter.

 

[flintlock75]

The Mortars in the movie were standard french 15" guns, and did fire explosive shells, if you watch the scene you will see them loading the shell, then lighting the fuse sepratly then fireing the gun. I saw several of these model guns at Fort Ticodaroga including one that was shattered due to a misfire after the shell fuse was lit. There is a big difference between a Mortar a Howitzer and a Cannon. Each weapon type was used for specific purposes. The Howitzer was an attempt to combine the effects of the Mortar and Cannon. Thats why Howitzers are designated by Bore size like mortars. A Howitzer can fire at a high angle for indirect fire using an explosive shell like a mortar or by direct fire using solid shot or cannister for close range. All mortars and Howitzers have a smaller than bore size powder chamber, this allows for less powder per shot. Most Howitzers have a high angle range of 300-400 yards with explosive shells and 600-800 yards with solid shot. A typical 15" Mortar also has a range of 300-400 yards. A Cannon of 12 pounds has a range 1200 to 1800 yards with solid ball but also requires a bigger powder charge.