Epoxy for muzzle cap and entry thimble

[kswan]

Hello all.

Wondering what type of epoxy will work best to glue fit the entry thimble and muzzle cap? Would JB weld work?

Thanks

 

[Black Hand]

Why would you glue these pieces in place? When properly installed, the entry thimble is retained by a pin and the nosecap is usually fixed by a rivet that is peened in the barrel channel.

Or have I missed something...

 

[simonbeans]

I have found a few of the inventories of noted 18th and 19th century gunsmiths. Couldn't find epoxy listed. (Maybe there was a different name for it in those times?)

 

[kswan]

Gun Building DVD by James Turpin. He uses epoxy to mount his muzzle cap and entry thimble.

 

[hawkeye2]

While it's a quick and simple solution it's rather permanent. Any epoxy would work for that.

 

[Black Hand]

Gun Building DVD by James Turpin. He uses epoxy to mount his muzzle cap and entry thimble.

Not necessary - Use a pin (or pins) and rivet as mentioned above.

Riveting a nosecap: http://hootalrifleshop.org/make-install_nosecap.htm
Entry thimble: http://www.hootalrifleshop.org/thimbles.htm

 

[Scota4570]

JB Weld would show. A clear slow set type would be better. Better still is to do the job the right way.

 

[hawkeye2]

If the wood to metal fit is right and/or the epoxy is applied correctly it would never be seen however it's quite easy to color epoxy to match the final finish of the wood. Still not advocating its use to glue a gun together.

 

[crockett]

How well have you fit the parts to the stock? Are you thinking about the epoxy due to a poor fit? You can use JB Weld as a sort of bedding compound if you wax REALLY GOOD the inside of the metal parts- to pull them free afterwards. You can also use a thin plastic food wrap between the compound and part. (plus the wax).
In any event using rivets and pins is the pc way to go.
On the nose cap, use two "rivets" or pins. These are angled up at 45 degrees so as to hit the middle of the 45 degree flat in the barrel channel. For the thimble, drill cross wise. If you use a drill press and don't push the drill- there shouldn't be any run out (wandering drill bit).

 

[Black Hand]

On the nose cap, use two "rivets"... These are angled up at 45 degrees so as to hit the middle of the 45 degree flat in the barrel channel.

I've seen a single rivet from the bottom of the barrel channel - not 2 rivets at 45 degree angles...

 

[Vaino]

Some Lehighs and Bucks County LRs have 2 rivets through the sides of the "V" or roughly "V" shaped and slightly curved Mcaps. Most PA LRs have 1 rivet through the bottom of the inlet.

At times I have used color matching epoxy w/ cast Mcaps, but the inside surface of the Mcap is waxed and doesn't stick, but the fit is perfect. The Mcap is then riveted. When using cast Mcaps w/ thick walls, the wood is very thin and needs reinforcement.

The epoxy is not used to "fill in" a gap where the Mcap meets the wood at the rear of the Mcap.....this "fit" is nearly always perfect and easy to achieve.

I don't use many cast Mcaps, preferring to make mine from .03-.04 thick annealed sheet brass....but occasionally when building from a "kit" like Chambers, the components as supplied are used and the cast caps are epoxied on as described above.

I don't use epoxy w/ an entry pipe...finding it unnecessary to do so.

 

[kswan]

The fit on both are good. Im just happened to buy a dvd in which this fellow used epoxy as well one of the books on building i have mentions epoxy on the muzzle cap. Im new to building and just though thats the way modern builds were done.

 

[jerrywh]

I never use epoxy on an entry thimble. I use pins one or two. On nose caps I use a rivet and epoxy both. The epoxy is not to hold it on but to reinforce the tip. The wood is very thin under the nose caps and I have seen them break off. Use the slow type. It is much stronger than the 5 minute epoxy.

 

[stubshaft]

I use the same basic procedure. I have used Accraglas Gel, glass bedding compond and have had good results with Marine-Tex epoxy. Both are thick enough that you don't have to worry about drips and sagging.

 

[kswan]

Thanks for the feed back.

 

[eggwelder]

I used a cast in place pewter cap, but I did bed the barrel in the stock with glass reinforced epoxy. it doesn`t move, and added a dramatic increase in strength to the fore end. this is helpful if you plan to be able to remove the barrel for cleaning. it also seals the wood under the barrel from moisture.

 

[kswan]

I thjnk im going to go with both a pin and something to re enforce.

 

[crockett]

On the 2 rivets at the 45 degree angle. I started with the single on the bottom but there is often very little wood in that area. On the 45 degree, the barrel keeps the rivet from moving inward so you only need the peen the end in the barrel channel to keep the rivet from sliding out. You then remove the rivet by driving it inward- into the barrel channel.
In drilling holes for these rivets, start with the nose cap- even on both sides. The actual run out into the barrel channel isn't that critical.

 

[Col. Batguano]

What do you use for rivets? I tried making them by peening copper electrical wire and that just became a mess and didn't work. The vice where it grabbed the wire just weakened the wire too much with the repeated tightenings and loosenings. I know there are copper roofing nails out there, but haven't tried them. In any case those heads are pretty flat, rather than funnel shaped, which is of course needed if the head is going to be filed flush with the rest of the MC.

I presume the reason for using copper rivets rather than brass or some other material is to show a slight contrast where the rivets are, rather than have the installation look entirely seamless, as it would if you peened brass wire.

 

[Vaino]

I've used copper harness rivets which have a fairly large, flat head and require that the head dia.be made smaller and thinned down and is then inletted into the bottom bbl flat after the hole is drilled through the wood and Mcap. W/ the bbl installed, the other end is peened into a ctsk in the Mcap and filed smooth.

Lately I use electrical wire and have a plate w/ a ctsk and peen the copper to form the head. The rest is the same as w/ the harness rivets.

Copper is used because it's very soft and peens well....not because of the color....Fred