Enfield Questions

[BruceHH]

I know absolutely nothing about reproduction or original Enfields, but I ended up with one at a recent black powder match. I build/sell mostly flintlocks and only took this one in as the price was right and I like to have some used stock on my rack for potential buyers.

It is a Armi Jager 2 Band, 33" barrel, four digit serial number, the express three blade rear sight, dark walnut wood, brass patch box, blued with a case colored lock.

What exactly do I have? It is in very good shape, where can I find a fair value range when I get ready to move it? Thanks in advance.

Bruce

 

[Stantheman86]

Sounds more like a Zouave than any Enfield repro.

A good condition Armi Jager Zouave might bring 400-ish, these are all over GunBroker from $250 for woods beaters to $600 for really nice ones but no one is paying that for an older Zouave unless they really must have it.

You can get an Armi Sport Zouave for $770 new in box right now off GunBroker, for reference.

 

[BruceHH]

OK, let me take a look. Don't have a clue about the difference, but thanks for the guidance.

 

[BruceHH]

Yes, it is a Zouave. It has three shallow lands and grooves also.

So if I get it right now, this is a copy of the 1863 Remington Zouave???

Thanks again.

 

[dave951]

It's probably a replica of the 1863 Remington contract musket. The Zouave moniker is a fairly modern thing as you won't see any record of these guns having been issued to actual ACW Zouave units. That said, these replicas can be great shooters with some load development.

 

[BruceHH]

Thanks Dave. I just want to make sure I don't label it wrong when I put it on the rack to sale. That can be embarrassing I hear.

 

[bang]

I found one unfired, 1975 made, Remington Ranson off gunbroker 380 shipped. Have to say it is a shooter. Very pleased with it.

 

[Stantheman86]

That's a nice one, some have that super light blond wood that makes them look like a Carcano rifle

I love Zouaves, I also love the irony that these older Zouave repros are what got many people into reenacting or muzzleloading, but it's a replica of a rifle which saw very little to no issue in the War. It's just that the 1960's Italian gunmakers had easy access to some of the many unissued Zouaves being sold , and used that as a model.

The "Zouave" itself being based on the Mississippi rifle, as produced by Remington.

There's always a demand for nice, fairly priced Italian 1863 Remington i.e. Zouave repros. I think they're just very nice looking rifles and a good all-rounder barrel length.

 

[TFoley]

There's always a demand for nice, fairly priced Italian 1863 Remington i.e. Zouave repros. I think they're just very nice looking rifles and a good all-rounder barrel length.

A shooting friend of mine here has a smoothbored 'Zouave' pattern musket that he limits shooting to 50 yards with a patched ball and 85gr of 2Fg. You really don't want to bet on winning against him at that distance. Mind you, he and the gun have grown old together - it was made in 1973 and it's the only muzzleloader he has. As noted, it's a really good-looking piece.

 

[BruceHH]

Thanks guys. Like I wrote earlier, I know nothing about this type/period of muzzleloader. I have gotten a good start with the information ya'll have provided. Going to carry it to the Georgia Territorial match next week and see if it moves.

 

[Stantheman86]

A shooting friend of mine here has a smoothbored 'Zouave' pattern musket that he limits shooting to 50 yards with a patched ball and 85gr of 2Fg. You really don't want to bet on winning against him at that distance. Mind you, he and the gun have grown old together - it was made in 1973 and it's the only muzzleloader he has. As noted, it's a really good-looking piece.

Armi Sport still makes a .58 Zouave Smoothbore and I kinda want one......

It is, in a sense, somewhat historically accurate because in the 1900s , bunches of the real 1863 Zouaves were surplused unissued by the Govt to Bannermans , and some of them were bored into 24 gauge smoothies , to make them into cheap Po Boy bird guns. I think they were available via mail order or in the store for what would be like $50 in today's dollars.

 

[TFoley]

Armi Sport still makes a .58 Zouave Smoothbore and I kinda want one......

It is, in a sense, somewhat historically accurate because in the 1900s , bunches of the real 1863 Zouaves were surplused unissued by the Govt to Bannermans , and some of them were bored into 24 gauge smoothies , to make them into cheap Po Boy bird guns. I think they were available via mail order or in the store for what would be like $50 in today's dollars.

Sears being one of them.....as seen in the 1902 catalog(ue).

 

[bisleyjohn]

Beware of the man with one gun

I sold an Ami 'Zoli' and wish I hadn't.

 

[Stantheman86]

I think a Zoli Zouave is kind of the standard issue weapon for anyone who is even "kinda" interested in muzzleloading or firearms in general

They're awesome, if you get lucky you can score one for $200 with field rash , maybe even $100 if the bore is roached, making an awesome way for your full service gunsmith to test his skills at boring it out to smooth.

I see at least a dozen a year at gun shows, I'm pretty sure more repros of this weapon have been made than originals , probably x10.

I have a Zoli Buffalo Hunter in my closet as a type this.

 

[bisleyjohn]

Sold mine to a friend starting off for thirty quid!