Elk load dilemma

[brewer12345]

I use wads under the real or else accuracy is poor. I think I need to up the charge on the REAL and try 100 yards again.

 

[BrownBear]

I think I need to up the charge on the REAL and try 100 yards again.

I'd sure up the sights while you're at it. Dead on at 50 is no place to be when you're thinking about shots at 100. A 75 yard sight-in works much better for me.

 

[renegadehunter]

I also prefer a 75 yard sight in. That puts me about 2" high at 50 and 4" low at 100 with RB if I remember right. Just hold center lungs. My renegade I believe basically has the same barrel as your Greyhawk, just blued and 2" longer. My PRB hunting load for it is 80 grns of 3f real black, an .018" pillow tick patch, and a 6:1 ratio of Denatured alcohol/Castor oil (dried so only the oil remains) lube. For conicals 100 grns of 2f real black is decent in mine, haven't tried more than that.

 

[dsayer]

I'd sure up the sights while you're at it. Dead on at 50 is no place to be when you're thinking about shots at 100. A 75 yard sight-in works much better for me.

Was able to sneak to the range today and did some testing on a similar load to the OP so thought I'd share my results. I'm also working up my elk load for Sept. This is from my Cabela's Hawken rifle.
380gr REAL, dry felt wad, 100gr of Graf's FFG at 50 and 100 yards.
Note that I'm shooting from a Caldwell shooting chair that swivels and such and therefore enables the world to see how poorly I execute my follow through in the case of a hang fire (50y, 3rd shot).

 

[BrownBear]

Comparing your 50 and 100 yard POI, I'm betting you're deadnuts center at 75.

 

[dsayer]

Comparing your 50 and 100 yard POI, I'm betting you're deadnuts center at 75.

You're probably right but my range doesn't have stands at 75.

 

[Frontier's]

those cabelas hawken rifle i swear, sob's hang fire even with real black powder due to their poor breech plug set up. My dad has one of those guns and the same issue with hang fires. Bought him a traditions that has a drum that actually lets powder flow under the nipple, much better now!

Excellent shooting. even at 100 yards. That 380gr real will really put the hurt on an elk.

 

[dsayer]

those cabelas hawken rifle i swear, sob's hang fire even with real black powder due to their poor breech plug set up. My dad has one of those guns and the same issue with hang fires. Bought him a traditions that has a drum that actually lets powder flow under the nipple, much better now!

Excellent shooting. even at 100 yards. That 380gr real will really put the hurt on an elk.

Not to detract from the original intent of the thread, but that's interesting about the breech plug setup. I've only ever owned Cabela's rifles so don't know any better. If I go through my entire between-shot routine then I don't have many issues, but, you know, sometimes I get overly confident and/or lazy.

 

[Frontier's]

One thing I highly suggest you do before you go out hunting is to pull the nipple out after loading and check for powder under the nipple. They have such a tiny powder channel that they easily stop up and fail to shift powder under the nipple whuch either results in a hang fire or worse, a total misfire.

 

[Oregononeshot]

I also drew a elk tag this year, my first muzzloader elk hunt! My load is going to be a 535 hand cast ball with a ticking patch and 85 gr of 3f. Right now my 5 shot groups at 100 yards are 2-6 inches. I'm confident out to 100, and plan to shoot out to 125 just to see the results. I went through a similar dilemma as you when I decided which rifle to get. After hearing from multiple people on this forum, I went with the Lyman GPR, for the 1:66 round ball rifling. I wanted the most accurate projectile, and I felt that was the PRB. Remember, it's not what you hit them with, it's where you hit them.

 

[longcruise]

I think the GPR is a 1:60 twist unless they changed it recently. In any case, 1:60 is a good twist for RB. Coleraine has sold a pile of 1:56 twist and they seem to do just fine.

 

[Griz44Mag]

One thing I highly suggest you do before you go out hunting is to pull the nipple out after loading and check for powder under the nipple. They have such a tiny powder channel that they easily stop up and fail to shift powder under the nipple whuch either results in a hang fire or worse, a total misfire.

So remove the "cleanout" screw and drill a bigger hole in it. Then rethread for a new "cleanout" screw.
If that's the issue, then that's a cure.
Try a hot shot nipple as well. That cures a lot of peoples issues.

 

[SDSmlf]

those cabelas hawken rifle i swear, sob's hang fire even with real black powder due to their poor breech plug set up. My dad has one of those guns and the same issue with hang fires. Bought him a traditions that has a drum that actually lets powder flow under the nipple, much better now!

Excellent shooting. even at 100 yards. That 380gr real will really put the hurt on an elk.

Is the Traditions different that the old CVA through the breech plug design? Those were awful for reliability. Remember guys slapping the side of the barrel to try and get the powder to make that 90° turn. Never had that problem with Lyman or TC caplock powder channels.

 

[brewer12345]

Well, looks like I got a deer muzzleloader tag in the leftover draw, so I will be going from not having fired black powder anything to two hunts this year with one. Better get myself to the range again and get all this figured out. As is, I think I know pretty well that I have a reasonable round ball load I would use for deer. Gotta work out the kinks on the REAL for elk or commit to the round ball.

I really like getting out in the field to get after game, so I am real glad to be figuring out black powder rifles so that I actually get tags in years when I have no preference points. The fun I have fooling around with these rifles is a nice side benefit. Since I am learning leather working I even made myself a ball pouch with a shed antler stopper.

 

[azmntman]

those cabelas hawken rifle i swear, sob's hang fire even with real black powder due to their poor breech plug set up. My dad has one of those guns and the same issue with hang fires. Bought him a traditions that has a drum that actually lets powder flow under the nipple, much better now!

Excellent shooting. even at 100 yards. That 380gr real will really put the hurt on an elk.

I have 4 Cabelas rifles, 2 .54 and 2 .58. Dont recall any misfire issues with mine (I do swipe between shots though). Son and I will be carrying them in Sept for BP cow elk and I may use one in Oct for BP deer.

 

[BrownBear]

I have 4 Cabelas rifles, 2 .54 and 2 .58. Dont recall any misfire issues with mine (I do swipe between shots though).

Three in this house (50, 54 and 58), and I don't recall a single misfire in many years of use. And we almost never swab since we switched to TOW mink tallow. Sumpin else might be going on, but it's not the lettering on the barrels.

 

[SDSmlf]

Three in this house (50, 54 and 58), and I don't recall a single misfire in many years of use. And we almost never swab since we switched to TOW mink tallow. Sumpin else might be going on, but it's not the lettering on the barrels.

Only reliability issue I have had with Cabelas/Lyman (and TCs) caplocks is a clogged nipple. Typically in humid weather conditions with long waits between shoots. Nothing to do with breech plug design.

 

[Frontier's]

I've run a bore camera down. The powder channel is very tiny and often fails to move powder into the breech and under the nipple. Glad you guys dont have problems, but ive had 2 and they are not trusted as hunting rifles. Investarms has put out a lor of shoddy barrels, we all found that out with the last recall.

 

[SDSmlf]

Have pulled breech plugs and found shallow angles leading from powder chamber to breech channel with TC and Lyman/Cabelas that allows powder to get from barrel to directly under the powder. No 90° turn like in the CVAs that required slapping the barrel senseless and hoping powder got to ware it needed to be. Pin in second photograph shows powder path in TC/Lyman/Cabelas design. No bore camera required. What we have is what we get. They don’t make any of these anymore.

 

[Frontier's]

That cabelas hawken rifles i had and still have look nothing like that. The cva and traditions set up is much better flowing.