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Early 1700's -- What Gun Would You Choose?

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Alden

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It's May, 1702. Long live Queen Anne who now sits on the throne back home and who has declared war on the French. With their brutal native allies they have been attacking the colonies for a year already over the dispute of Spanish Succession. From The Caribbean to New France the conflict gathers momentum and you are responsible for arming the New York Provincial Regiment which is smack in the middle of things.

What gun would you choose?
 
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Well, the first thing is I would not want a single matchlock musket from Colonial Stores, unless I could not get anything else.

De Witt Bailey theorizes that the Long Carbine of James II and William II MAY have been sent here to America before that time. It had a true flintlock with a 36 inch barrel and barrel bands, .65 caliber, but no bayonet. If any of those were available, I would grab every one I could get and get bayonets fitted to them. If there was enough for my entire unit, I could get along fine with them after bayonets were supplied and fitted.

During this period, it seems Birmingham was only in the early stages of arms production, so it is quite possible they could not be relied upon for a shipment of arms. I imagine that London gunmakers were breaking their backs trying to get the Regulars armed, so it is also possible or even probable they could not supply a good quantity of arms in a short time to a Colony. (During the 1680's and 90's, it seems Britain had to buy a LOT of muskets and other military arms from "The Dutch" because British Gun Makers could not keep up with the demand.)

So it looks like IF I had the money to buy arms, I would have had to buy "Dutch Arms." I would specify flat locks with rings on the top of the Cock/Top Jaw Screw, only two side lock screws, BUT with first quality internal parts. These flat locks were commonly available and cheaper than rounded locks then and the idea would be to save money by using the cheaper profile flat lock and spend the money on better quality internal parts, including an internal bridle. I would also try to get the locks with a pan bridle, but that may not have been possible. Similar to the Mid 18th century scenario, I would want the muskets to be of carbine caliber and supplied with bayonets. I would want the barrels no longer than 42" and since shorter barrels were more common in this period, I would go with 40" barrels. If barrel bands were not too expensive, I would want them on the muskets, though if that raised the cost too much, pinned barrels would have been acceptable. (This option is possible because "Dutch" Arms makers were completely familiar with barrel bands by this point.)

Gus
 

Alden

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Well, so far you've made the best choice(s) as far as I'm concerned and not just 'cause no-one else applied.
 
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Thank you Alden,

In this era only a few years before (without looking it up I think in the mid to late 1690’s), Virginia had imported a good sized number of arms that were British "Military Surplus" with the intention they were to be sold at reduced cost, so the poorest members of the Militia could afford a gun for Militia Duty. (The problem for us who would LOVE to know what “Military Surplus Arms” Virginia received is it never mentions which arms they were, though I expect they were Muskets and most likely flintlocks, because it does not mention anything about them being matchlocks.) Though the idea seemed like a valid one, it turned out to be a Huge Bust. Virginia wound up only selling a very few of them. Even as cheap as they were sold, they were deemed as “too heavy” by most of those it was the intention to sell them to. IOW it seems, IF the poorer Virginians had any money to buy a gun for Militia Duty, then they went ahead and paid more for a lighter civilian gun that would be acceptable for Militia Use.

Further, at the personal expense Lt. Col. Thomas Gage of the 44th Foot (British Regulars), 540 P1730 Muskets were taken from stores and delivered to a New York Gunsmith, Abraham Vangelder who was paid the sum of 135/13/0 Pounds for “lightening” those muskets and was paid for doing the work on 10 Jan 1758. These were for Gage’s Unit of “Light Arm’d Foot.” ( FWIW, Bailey also noted, “This is the only recorded instance of this type of work being carried out for the British Services in North America.”) More on this in the following link: http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showpost.php?post/1467030/

I must also admit that the capture of the huge pile of French Arms (around 15,000) from Fort Louisbourg in 1758 and the resultant eager and wide acceptance of those arms by both British Regular Light Infantry and Colonial Militia has a lot to do with my choices for both this era and the mid 1750's era Arms in your other era question. It is documented more than once that both the British Regular Light Infantry and the Colonial Militia preferred these Muskets because they were “lighter.”

The common thread amoung these examples, though spread over more than 60 years, is the Colonial Militia from different Colonies (as well as British Regular Light Infantry Units) seemed to have believed the “British Standard Issue Musket” was too heavy and preferred lighter Muskets.

This is where I have had to divorce myself from my own experience and personal preference for a more robust arm that will stand up better to rough usage in combat, both in the period and in modern military usage. Though I have never handled an Original P1730 or earlier British Musket, I have handled a couple of very accurate reproductions of this model and one I think was custom made by Kit Ravenshear. These were noticeably heavier than the Pedersoli Musket I commonly used for reenacting, though I do not believe TOO much heavier. (I come from the period in the military when we were issued a heavy rifle and told “to get used to it and get stronger and not complain about the weight.”) BUT, it is hard to argue with period documentation on their preferences in the period. GRIN.

IMO, the period “Carbine Bore” diameter/caliber was also large enough to be completely adequate for all military usage in the 18th century; while reducing weight of the Firelock and ammunition, as well as requiring less lead and powder for each round of ammunition. So this bore size appeals on many points, including the very important point of Logistics.

Gus
 
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Alden

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That's all well and good, however, note this is really going back to the time when the British Army first adopted a standard model flintlock...
 
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Indeed, it was not until 1715 that the Ordnance Board took over supervision of all Military Patterns/Weapons.

However prior to that time, there were approved Ordnance approved Patterns for Flintlock Land Muskets most notably differing by the style of their Lock Plates. Is this what you are referring to? Or do you mean the P1730 was the first "Standard Model" where less noticeable changes were made in future patterns from then on?

P1686 (Flat Face Lock)
P1689 (Round Face Lock)
P1690 (Round Face Lock)
P1699 (Flat Face Lock)
P1703 (Flat Face "Ketch" Lock or "Dog Lock")
P1718 (Flat Face Lock with no "Ketch")
P1730 and forward for another century, Round Faced Locks

Gus
 

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I'd have to look it up to be sure, but I think some of the club butt or Dutch style fowlers were in use at the time. I would like to have one say in a 65 cal. or something like that.
 
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Depends on what I was doing and where I was but I may opt for the musket I built (side arm being the QA I also built). The snaphaunce lock may be a little more complicated but Ive fired at least a few hundred shots from her and once she was tuned in she works beautifully. Last year at an event She burned thru a half pond of powder (blank loads) in under an hour with only a couple "clicks" http://www.swabsarmory.com/buccaneer-musket.html
 
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If the Carbine was too short for some, here is another good choice. However, not sure any of these would have been released to the American Colonies for the early 1700's.


William III "Pattern 1690" Infantry Musket
1695-1702
Origin: England
Lock: 7" x 1 1/4"; Barrel: 45 5/8" x 1 3/8"; Bore: .80 caliber; Overall length: 61"
Wood, iron, steel, and brass
http://emuseum.history.org/view/ob...ate:flow=0b308288-242d-4703-89f7-56722030d044

Gus
 
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Loyalist Dave

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P1703 (Flat Face "Ketch" Lock or "Dog Lock")

A Ketch-Lock for me. The date on the British musket with that model was the date of "acceptance", not the date of invention nor manufacture. A simple "flintlock" with the half cock being the "ketch" or the "dog" on the outside of the lock.

Interesting to note that Sweden didn't do away with the ketch until the beginning of the 19th century. Seems that very cold climate they perhaps thought that it was more reliable for soldiers wearing mitts or gloves.


LD
 

Free Plunder

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My ancestors were living on the Eastern Shore of VA and the seaside barrier island villages long before 1702. They were using whatever smooth bore guns available for shooting fowl and game. I'm aware of "Spanish" guns" from pirate take, Lewis Guitar and etc..., like bow and stern chasers and swivel type guns being common and traded items along the coast. Matchlock/cannon and conversions to "flint" type ignition. My 1st european traceable ancestor came to Jamestown with Capt. Christopher Newport and went to the Eastern Shore to the "salt works".

So, I'd have to choose some type of punt or swivel gun for shooting large flocks of fowl for market as my "gun of choice" for the OP named era. Personally a "punter of 2" bore and 8' barrel length" would be my choice. Flint type ignition. Grandfather had one that I seen as a chap, mid 1950s, that he used in the late 18 and into mid 19 century of percussion ignition. I was told who inherited the original gun but no trace is detectable today. LOL, I have built punters but none lately. I'm ready for the USF&WS agents come by and give me a visit. I know nothing! FP
 
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Well, the first thing is I would not want a single matchlock musket from Colonial Stores, unless I could not get anything else.

See now I might be inclined to disagree, not on the basis of what the superior gun would be, but on the basis of what the superior logistical arrangement would be. It's my understanding that at this point in history (1702) there wasn't much domestic gun flint manufacture in America and most flints had to be imported all the way from Europe. It would have likely been more straightforward (and cheaper) to domestically produce matchcord in the colonies from locally grown products like hemp or cotton. If we're talking about a war involving the powers back in Europe, one of my primary concerns would be having my colonial unit get cut off from supply lines back in Britain by a French blockade or privateer attacks; a flinter might be superior to a matchlock in many respects, but it's not going to do you much good if you can't keep importing new flints from Europe to keep the thing firing. But if you've got matchlocks, it's a simpler process to make the cord locally without having to worry about overseas imports of flints.

Additionally, I don't know how much domestic manufacture in America there was at that time (1702) of things like springs and other flintlock lock components; you might have to import those parts from Europe too if you ran out of replacement parts from spare guns. But if the lock on your matchlock breaks, you could conceivably improvise and replace it with a more simple pivoting serpentine (which I doubt would be beyond the capabilities of most local blacksmiths) and still keep the gun operational.

serpentine_a.GIF
 
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I have a Safe Queen , that is a Hudson River Valley fowler from one of Kit Ravenshear's original patterns. Kit must have had at least a small demand for these type muskets , or he would never have made a pattern for Fred Miller to precarve them. The guy from Knob Mountian Muzzleloading , that bought all Fred's Patterns might have a Precarving pattern for you.
 

Rudyard

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It's May, 1702. Long live Queen Anne who now sits on the throne back home and who has declared war on the French. With their brutal native allies they have been attacking the colonies for a year already over the dispute of Spanish Succession. From The Caribbean to New France the conflict gathers momentum and you are responsible for arming the New York Provincial Regiment which is smack in the middle of things.

What gun would you choose?
Hmmm how about a Puckles ? . being a bit sarky but there are various sorts but you might want cheap & cheerful matchlocks . The English lock reliant on its' Dog' for half cock might be modern enough yet not to costly means of ignition I use just such locks and think them all that's really needed . Rudyard
 
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