Dutch Schultz' Accuracy Method

[Col. Batguano]

Even if you go back to your tried `n true system--normal patching, spit lube, or what ever, for your every day shooting and convenience ( I admit that swabbing between shots can become something of a chore), it would behoove you to at least TRY his system to see what you and your gun might be capable of IF you feel that putting in the effort is worth it.

For instance, if you are banging gongs on a woods walk that sort of accuracy might be just fine for that kind of "social" shooting, but what about if you go to a match where money might be involved? It would be nice to know what COULD happen IF you're willing to put in the effort. As an analogy; In smallbore, I don't practice with Eley Tenex, but I use it in matches.

 

[Ben Meyer]

I'm just using the method to find "the load" for this gun. Once I reach the point where I finally do(powder charge, ball size, patch material and lube) I'll be done, i i doubt i ever change ANYTHING. Or, shoot from a bench ever again. At that point so long as i am absolutely consistent in loading and cleaning procedures, I will KNOW misses and bad groups are "on me" and the gun ain't to blame.

 

[Griz44Mag]

With bore butter I can shoot all afternoon without any swab, and pile them on top of each other. Sure beats pushing crud down into breach and causing hang fires.

Maybe you need to learn how to use the right jag in the right way.
As to your claim - well, I would have to see it.... That BB manure was the worst thing I ever put into a muzzleloader barrel.

 

[Grenadier1758]

I'm working the system with my .50cal flintlock and it's working for me. Shot my 1st sub 2" five shot group at 50yds last time out. It was better than that really, 4 holes touching with one off a bit. Measured 1.93". Just today I took the micrometer to Joann fabrics for an ever so slightly thicker patch material. The only thing I'm yet to do is individually weigh lead balls, and that's next.

Once you get that slightly thicker (100% cotton) patch material home, be sure to wash the sizing out before you go to the range.

 

[Dr5x]

I tried bore butter, mink oil, Mr. Flintlocks and honestly, the Ballistol and water drylubed patches shoot better out of my gun. I do swab between shots, but without issue.

Well I suppose I ought to print a rebuttle.
I have heard all who followed directions and shuddered from the posts of those who didn't give it a thorough try.
I have never said or even thought my method was the one and only way to achieve accuracy. There's Art Fleeter of Darkest Iowa who defies my suggestions and does well enough to maintain an interest in he sport. My effort has always been directed to the loser who has tried just about everything with no success. I was such a loser and it took me almost seven years of trial and effort to work out the kinks to discover ONE way to get there.
People who have great success using various Goops amaze me and I have difficulty in believing them.
My Acid Test is:
Do You Have Flyers?
Flyers are caused by several things and I like my happy subscribers to not have any. On windless days I was getting five shot groups you could cover with a nickel. I had no flyers because of just few things, Can anyone guess what things saved me from that waste of powder and lead.

I await guesses or just simple answers,
All Billinpatti had to do as and old subscriber was to say he needed a new free coy.

If you don't follow directions well it is unfair to blame the author of those directions for your lack of success.
Dutch

 

[Carbon 6]

I wish people would stop bumping decade old threads. All it does is start arguments.

 

[Griz44Mag]

I wish people would stop bumping decade old threads. All it does is start arguments.

I thought that was the reason that some (some-times seems like "most") of the readers\posters came here in the first place.
There are a few that come here for the sole purpose of starting a rowe...

 

[Ben Meyer]

I bought half a yard of 100% cotton preshrunk white denim and washed/dried it. I cut it in half, cut 6 strips and soaked half in 5:1 Ballistol and hater and the other half in 6:1. They're currently laid flat, drying. I'm a little concerned though, they "feel" a tad thicker now than in the store. The compressed thickness of what I'm currently using(if I'm reading the micrometer right, which I may not be) is .009. This new stuff is .010, just one dash on the dial thicker. I just bought that one piece, and I hope it's not TOO thick to load. They didnt have any denim that measured .0095.

Once you get that slightly thicker (100% cotton) patch material home, be sure to wash the sizing out before you go to the range.

 

[Griz44Mag]

I cannot count on an abacus the number of people that I have gone target shooting with over the last 60 years or so that have claimed to be a cloverleaf or bughole shooter, but I can count the number of them that could back it up on one hand, and still have enough fingers left to hold a water bottle....
One in particular I recall was a member of the shooting club I belong to. I saw him on the pistol range one day at 10 yards with a hunting rifle. Told me he was sighting in a new scope. A few days later I saw that same target posted on a forum site claiming it was a 200 yard group.
It's way too easy to be an internet hero (self proclaimed) than to be the real McCoy.....

 

[FishDFly]

"What is everyone's opinion of Dutch Schultz' accuracy method? Where can I get a copy of it?"

There is a lot of good information in Dutch's writings, I have a complete copy of it and re-read it periodically.

It is not a total panacea, but his writing are not based on internet biased opinions of others, he spent time at the range to get his findings.

In some places I agree with him and in other places I have better learning's.

For a person starting out, it a good place to learn.

 

[rusticbob]

I use the Dutch system and it works great in all my muzzleloaders. I have used "bore butter" in the past, but the dry patch system works great with roundballs, plus I don't have to be concerned about contaminating my powder charge.
Too each his own.

 

[dave951]

If you're into PRB and don't have somebody close to offer good advice, I can see the usefulness of Dutch's book. It would help give some ideas when problem solving but it's mostly relevant to PRB. Here's a group from my first gen Parker Hale P58 at 50yd. Bullet is a RCBS Hogdon minie sized .576, beeswax/lard lube, 42gr Old E 3f, RWS caps, 7 shots no wiping. This qualify as a "bughole"?

 

[mushka]

I use black powder with a prb lubed lightly with totw mink oil. What's the problem with a spit patch between each load. Takes about ten seconds. I spit patch clean between each shot with every gun I have. Some need it, some don't but I do it anyway. it's built into my loading sequence. Personally I don't see a problem with the way anyone loads their guns as long as they are happy with what they do. I'd never try to change someone's way of doing things unless it was actually dangerous.

 

[longcruise]

With bore butter I can shoot all afternoon without any swab, and pile them on top of each other. Sure beats pushing crud down into breach and causing hang fires.

I have, in the past, shot with great success using bore butter but I found that Loading without wiping was related to the humidity. When the air was dry wiping between shots was necessary. OTOH, I was able to shoot a 2nd place and a third place in a shoot with 219 shooters using bb and no wiping. It was unusual weather for July in the Rockies with humidity running around 75% and some shooting done in a light drizzle.

I also know for a fact that I could have done the same thing with crisco or spit!

I understand the desire to be able to shoot without wiping but wiping between shots has, for me at least, allowed me to shoot well with any lube under any circumstances as long as it is used sparingly and consistently.

To each his own.

I don't own Dutch's system but have used dry lube patching with great success. Might even be better if I used his whole system.

 

[azmntman]

It works, follow it exactly and give it some time. USE the micrometer, weigh yer balls. It will tighten up yer groups if you follow to the "T".

For plinking Hoppes will do, for match shooting or to test the rifle and your shooting follow his advise.

 

[FishDFly]

I have, in the past, shot with great success using bore butter but I found that Loading without wiping was related to the humidity. When the air was dry wiping between shots was necessary. OTOH, I was able to shoot a 2nd place and a third place in a shoot with 219 shooters using bb and no wiping. It was unusual weather for July in the Rockies with humidity running around 75% and some shooting done in a light drizzle.

In all honesty, how does a person count 219 shooters using bb and no wiping while placing 2nd and 3rd in a shoot?????

You gotta be one busy person to do all that....................

 

[rp77469]

For 30+ years I saw the Dutch adds in ML, MB, etc and ignored them. My favorite rifle would easily shoot a one hole group at 50 and I saw no need to improve. I could shoot it all day without wiping. Then I was given a .45 rifle about a year ago, and in three trips to the range, the best I could do was a 3.5 inch group or so. I tried just about everything. I finally ordered Dutch's ebook and have read most of it. The one thing that hit me was the lack of swabbing between shots. I had rarely done that in the decades. Next trip to the range I swabbed between shots. That is a 4-shot hole at 8 o'clock that can just be covered with a nickle. After those 4 shots I took 3 more without cleaning between shots. Those are, in order, the hole at 6, 2:30 and 12 o'clock. The black portion of the target is 5.9 inches. This rifle demands wiping between shots for accuracy. It is also very touchy when it comes t powder charge. The group swelled to 4.5 inches for 4 shots when I upped the powder charge 5 grains to 65 3f Goex, still wiping between shots, but shot a 1.5-2 inch group using 65g 2f. At $20 a gun range fee, I consider Dutch's book a bargain in that he solved my problem with his thought-jogger. I still need to finish his tips as I have no doubt that eliminating variability will improve my consistency. Need to find my Ohaus and start weighing out round balls.

 

[smo]

I’ve posted this before....

Off Hand Smoothbore target shot at 50 yards.

Sorry for the poor quality of the photo.

I took it several years ago with a cell phone at Mr.Tips shop in Tn.

With no disrespect too Mr. Dutch, But I think Tip told me he was shooting a spit patched ball.

My personal experience is for what it’s worth ...

I purchased Mr. Dutch’s system back around the time this thread originated.
I found it too be an interesting read , with a lot of good information.

I did give it a try and liked the no mess patching .
I kept mine in strips and cut at the muzzle at that time.

I may revisit it again in the Future.

I shoot a similar patching system now, except they’re pre cut and I use Olive Oil or Hornadys One Shot on them .

I store them in a small tin where they maintain the slightest bit of dampness for several weeks.
If they dry out too much, I just add a couple more drops before I go to shoot.

Thanks again, Mr. Dutch for the countless hours you put in and for your contribution too the sport we all love so much. Well done Sir !

 

[longcruise]

In all honesty, how does a person count 219 shooters using bb and no wiping while placing 2nd and 3rd in a shoot?????

You gotta be one busy person to do all that....................

Well, I had to go back and read my own post to figure out how you got that out of it but I see it. So I'm not sure if your post is a joke or if you are taking a swipe at my writing skills or maybe you actually thought 219 shooters all registered and all shot BB without wiping in that match.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

People have reported great success.

I own his book and it’s very interesting a well written. Dutch is a great writer and I love reading his posts here.

But, for me, I am more of a traditionalist and just find myself using spit and don’t wipe between shots much. But if going for pure benchrest accuracy, Dutch’s method is probably the best thing.