Dutch Schoultz System Question - ball weight

[Micah Clark]

I am re-reading the Dutch Schoultz system that I purchased a couple months ago.

It has me rethinking a whole lot of things. . . patches and his dry system in particular.

However, I am shooting a .32 . . . my .50 will benefit from what I implement too, but I am OK with how it shoots, as I have taken 2 deer with my Lyman GPR . . . My .32 is a custom TVM w a Rice Barrel that I made. . . and I want tighter groups with it.

The ML ball-weight theory is that a heavy or light ball will spin off target. . . but if a ball, (perhaps particularly as small as a .32 ) . . is deformed when loaded, or etched by rifling, wouldn't it fly more like a spiral football, thus negating the spin off theory? (Just a weird thought in my head.)

Dutch, if you read this, I hope that you are doing well. Your system is a great benefit to our sport . . . though I have not been to the range to start testing yet. . . but if you have any ideas that I should pay particular attention to with a .32 . . . I'm all ears.

Micah in Indiana

 

[Dr5x]

MAC 1967
THE CENTRAL CORE OF MY "SYSTEM" IS IN THE SEGMENTS CONNECTED WITH SHOOTING PATCH SELECTION.
YOUR .32 WILL BE A LOT PICKIER ABOUT DETAILS THAN YOUR GPR.
IN TWO BALLS OF THE EXACT SAME SIZE, IF ONE IN LIGHTER IT WOULD INDICATE AN AIR BUBBLE OR LIGHT WEIGHT INCLUSION THAT IF NOT LOCATED ON THE AXIS AROUND IT WILL SOIN ON ITS WAY DOWN RANGE WILL VERY LIKELY CAUSE IY TO FLY OFF COURSE . THE MORE THE DEVIATION SUBTRACTS FROM THE TOTAL WEIGHT PLUS ITS POSITION IN RELATION THE AXIS WILL DETERMINE WHAT THE FLIGHT DEVIATION MY BE.
IT'S BEST TO DETERMINE THE WEIGHT OF THE HEAVIEST BALL AND DISCARD ALL MORE THAN ONE GRAIN LIGHTER IN YOU HEAVIER CALIBER GPR AND A HALF GRAIN LIGHTNESS IN YOUR .32 RIFLE.
SOMEWHERE IN THE BOOK THERE IS A SECTION POINTING OUT HOW THERE MIGHT BE SOME BUCK SHOT THAT MEASURES OUT AT AT .31 OR .315 THAT DERIVES FROM BEING MADE BY CASTING MOLTEN LEAD FROM A TOWER AND WHICH IS QUITE UNLIKELY TO BE OFF BALANCE.

ALL ROUND BALLS ARE DEFORMED WHEN SHORT STARTED AS YOU ARE EXTRUDING THE SOFT LEAD INTO THE LANDS AND GROOVES OF THE RIFLING. THAT EXTRUSION WILL NOT FORGIVE AN OFF BALANCE BALL.

LEARN TO TAKE ONLY COMPRESSED MEASUREMENTS OF SHOOTING PATCH MATERIAL. IT IS SOLD BY UNCOMPRESSED MEASUREMENT WHICH IS VERY MISLEADING.

ALL THIS STUFF SOUNDS COMPLICATED, BUT ONCE YOU FIGURE OUT WHAT YOUR VARIIOUS RIFLES WANT YOU DON'T HAVE TO THINK ABOUT AGAIN TILLYOU RN OUT OF CLOTH. WHEN YOU ARE SURE YOU HAVE FOUND THE PERFECT SHOOTING PATCH CLOTH GO BUT 9M OR 10 YARDS OF IT AND YOUR PATCH PROBLEMS WILL BE OVER FOR A HECK OF A LONG TIME.

DUTCH SCHOULTZ

 

[azmntman]

Yes, with a .32 9 or 10 yards should last you about 124 years :haha:

 

[Dr5x]

My 9 yards lasted tillI could no longer shoot and I was able to reupholster a dying recliner with the leftovers, but, by God, I never ran out of my perfect shooting patch material.

Dutch

 

[csitas]

Mac, I shoot a 32. I like the gun but, it is finicky.A lot to play with here. Ball size, patch thickness and lube, and of coarse powder charge. I shoot Dutch's system with all my rifles.My gun is nothing speacial. An original Dixie.At twenty five yards ,and on a bench ,if your on this day,one ragged hole about pea size. Reason I say this is cause some days we don't shoot as good a others.

 

[Rifleman1776]

The ML ball-weight theory is that a heavy or light ball will spin off target. . . but if a ball, (perhaps particularly as small as a .32 ) . . is deformed when loaded, or etched by rifling, wouldn't it fly more like a spiral football, thus negating the spin off theory? (Just a weird thought in my head.)

:hmm:

 

[Micah Clark]

Thanks for the info, Dutch . . .

I think you answered my question with this:

"ALL ROUND BALLS ARE DEFORMED WHEN SHORT STARTED AS YOU ARE EXTRUDING THE SOFT LEAD INTO THE LANDS AND GROOVES OF THE RIFLING. THAT EXTRUSION WILL NOT FORGIVE AN OFF BALANCE BALL."

Thanks for all the info and comments.

I hate to take up your time with another question . . .but . . . I have a micrometer that I want a shop teacher friend to help me with for it's accurate use, but holding it as instructed, it seems as though I am able to compress dry un-lubed patches from reputable vendors, one being Ox-Yoke, of .15 down to more to about .06 . . . that's a much bigger difference that I had expected. Is that your experience? I am wondering if I cranked it down too much. But, if I am accurate, that's a game changer mentally as I consider this now . . .

I am also going to move from .310 swaged balls, (though I will weigh them with my reloading powder measure in grains) to .311 cast . . . I also have some .315 cast that should be interesting. . . I'll weigh them too . . I've got Ballistol too, so I'm ready to implement your teachings.

BTW - I appreciate the humor in your book as well as the instruction . . . Best regard to you.

 

[Dr5x]

You can crank down your micrometer till you damage it.

Holding the barrel of the micrometer rightly between thumb and forefinger as you tighten should do the job and your finger tips would slip before you damage anything.

I bought some Ok Yoke precut patches a thousand years ago and found that they were all exactly as advertised when measured with uncompressed micrometer method, BUT when using the compressed measuring method I found that the patches came from three different fabrics so only one patch could be OK if at all.

My fading memory tells me that the fabric I found so perfect for, surprisingly, both my rifles was somewhere in in the .015 or .016 uncompressed measurement but compressed down to .0065

Dutch

 

[Dr5x]

Rifleman 1776

I don't know but would think that an appreciable weight placed under the stiching on a football might cause it to wobble off course, but then it is not thrown with the same speed as a billet.

I agree about weird thoughts troubling old grey heads.

Dutch

 

[Micah Clark]

Thank you Dutch . . . I appreciate your thoughts . . sounds like I'm on track with the micrometer . . . I will be looking for fabric I can buy or make into strips. . .as you recommend in your book. It is true from my initial observations that the patches we buy seem to be measured correctly - uncompressed.

I am looking forward to your patching recommendations, swabbing, and ball weight checks and going to the range to implement them.