Dragoon problems

Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:

Jadecummings

32 Cal
Joined
Sep 3, 2022
Messages
9
Reaction score
7
Location
Oklahoma
So I traded for a dragoon 2ed model Italian reproduction and it over rotates on some chambers when cocked. My diy gunsmithing knowledge is fair but from the looks one or two of the notches my be worn down but only very very slightly my main issue tho is when the trigger is pulled the hammer lands slightly to the side of the nipple even when the cylinder is perfectly aligned Picture is oh how the hammer falls. Trying to find somewhere to order a replacement cylinder but because I do I want to make sure the cylinder is the problem any advice would be gratefully appreciated
 

Attachments

  • 577A945A-95A7-498E-A6C1-194F3930420B.jpeg
    577A945A-95A7-498E-A6C1-194F3930420B.jpeg
    1.4 MB · Views: 0
Joined
Oct 17, 2006
Messages
960
Reaction score
658
The most likely problem given your description is that the locking bolt does not fit in the notches where the cylinder is over rotating. This likely occurs where you have a late bolt drop and it peens the notch a bit.
 

Jadecummings

32 Cal
Joined
Sep 3, 2022
Messages
9
Reaction score
7
Location
Oklahoma
The most likely problem given your description is that the locking bolt does not fit in the notches where the cylinder is over rotating. This likely occurs where you have a late bolt drop and it peens the notch a bit.
Would this cause the hammer falling out of place?
 

Jadecummings

32 Cal
Joined
Sep 3, 2022
Messages
9
Reaction score
7
Location
Oklahoma
No that would be caused by over rotation either from too long a hand or from momentum of rotation but could only happen because the bolt did not enter the notch and lock the cylinder.
After taking it a gun Smith we determined that the problem is worn down notch’s on the cylinder and it would need to be replaced
 

45D

45 Cal.
Joined
Aug 21, 2021
Messages
654
Reaction score
1,101
We? Two folks ignorant of the situation determined the "problem"? Lol

I disagree, the bolt isn't fully engaging the depth of the notch.
Remove the "stop shelf" ( forward section in front of the bolt head) and set correct bolt drop and you'd be fine. ( don't play with it till this is done!! Lol!!)

Is that the worst notch or can you show the rest?

Mike
 

45D

45 Cal.
Joined
Aug 21, 2021
Messages
654
Reaction score
1,101
Ok, I got a message about not being nice. So, rather than using a correct ( not being ugly) word ill say it again.
After taking it a gun Smith we determined that the problem is worn down notch’s on the cylinder and it would need to be replaced
So, after two people that don't know what the problem is looked at this Dragoon, they made a decision as to what is wrong with it.
I disagree, the bolt isn't fully engaging the depth of the notch.
Remove the "stop shelf" ( forward section in front of the bolt head) and set correct bolt drop and you'd be fine. ( don't play with it till this is done!! Lol!!)

Is that the worst notch or can you show the rest?

Mike

Just to be clear, the word "ignorant" means that you "don’t know" . . .(that's why there's an "lol" ) doesn't mean you're stupid, dumb or anything ugly . I'm ignorant about a lot of things but S A.'s isn't one of them. The op is asking the question, today's gunsmiths are "familiar " at best . . . and I just disagree with the decision "they" made.

If my post hurt anyone's feelings, I apologize.

Here's a "heads up". If you get a new cylinder, it will end up the same way. Fix the problem, save your cylinder and you won't need to buy a new cylinder. ( I'm trying to save you some money.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Apr 12, 2004
Messages
5,649
Reaction score
3,615
Location
Winchester, VA
Jadecummings are you referring to the notches on the back of the cylinder that the hand engages? If they were worn the cylinder would not rotate up to the firing position, just the opposite of over rotating. The locking notches on the cylinder show only minimal wear and there is no drag line, don't see much wrong there. Is the cylinder locked up solid in the photo above?

What brand is it? A replacement cylinder is quite an investment, I would buy one only as an extreme last resort.
 
Joined
Oct 17, 2006
Messages
960
Reaction score
658
45D could be right but I would think that would effect all chambers if the bolt was not rising high enough and not just a couple. Just looking at the one notch pictured it looks like the bolt is dropping late an it doesn't take much to peen the notch to where the bolt won't fit. Easy enough to check just take the bolt out and hand try it in each notch. As to wearing out the notches I seriously doubt that.
 

45D

45 Cal.
Joined
Aug 21, 2021
Messages
654
Reaction score
1,101
Denster, if you'll look at the "up coming" notch (left in the picture) you'll see the imprint the bolt is making. There's not enough engagement there to maintain a locked cylinder - especially if you fired it. Just the force of the hammer falling is enough to cause the bolt to unlock.
I think it's an ill fitted bolt and the stop shelf is limiting the bolt's travel. That or the bolt head has been ground down for whatever reason . . .

OP, can you show more notches? And the cylinder removed for a pic of the bolt?

Mike
 

Jadecummings

32 Cal
Joined
Sep 3, 2022
Messages
9
Reaction score
7
Location
Oklahoma
Denster, if you'll look at the "up coming" notch (left in the picture) you'll see the imprint the bolt is making. There's not enough engagement there to maintain a locked cylinder - especially if you fired it. Just the force of the hammer falling is enough to cause the bolt to unlock.
I think it's an ill fitted bolt and the stop shelf is limiting the bolt's travel. That or the bolt head has been ground down for whatever reason . . .

OP, can you show more notches? And the cylinder removed for a pic of the bolt?

Mike
Sorry I no longer have it I took it back to the person I got it from and swapped it for a working walker
 

Jadecummings

32 Cal
Joined
Sep 3, 2022
Messages
9
Reaction score
7
Location
Oklahoma
Ok, I got a message about not being nice. So, rather than using a correct ( not being ugly) word ill say it again.

So, after two people that don't know what the problem is looked at this Dragoon, they made a decision as to what is wrong with it.


Just to be clear, the word "ignorant" means that you "don’t know" . . .(that's why there's an "lol" ) doesn't mean you're stupid, dumb or anything ugly . I'm ignorant about a lot of things but S A.'s isn't one of them. The op is asking the question, today's gunsmiths are "familiar " at best . . . and I just disagree with the decision "they" made.

If my post hurt anyone's feelings, I apologize.

Here's a "heads up". If you get a new cylinder, it will end up the same way. Fix the problem, save your cylinder and you won't need to buy a new cylinder. ( I'm trying to save you some money.
No offense taken at all. I appreciate everyone’s help. I did end up just returning it and swapping it out for a working walker
 
Joined
Jul 8, 2022
Messages
109
Reaction score
109
Location
Washington State
I agree with others that have posted here. That is a bolt fitting issue. That cylinder is fine.

“Gunsmith” is not exactly reassuring word now a days. Hopefully you did not pay that guy for that opinion.
 
Last edited:

Musket69

32 Cal
Joined
May 16, 2022
Messages
31
Reaction score
37
Sorry you don't have the Dragoon any longer. My 3rd model occasionally will have same malfunction after several cylinders fired. Spent caps will fall between the hammer and recoil shield jamming the locking bolt. The fix is tear it down, clean the innards, reassemble, continue session. I have pulled as many as 5 spent caps from the inside of it and my Walker...
 

45D

45 Cal.
Joined
Aug 21, 2021
Messages
654
Reaction score
1,101
Sorry you don't have the Dragoon any longer. My 3rd model occasionally will have same malfunction after several cylinders fired. Spent caps will fall between the hammer and recoil shield jamming the locking bolt. The fix is tear it down, clean the innards, reassemble, continue session. I have pulled as many as 5 spent caps from the inside of it and my Walker...
There's a MUCH better fix!! A shoot all day without "tearing it down" fix. Search the forums . . . There's even a "never 'tear it down' again" fix!!

Mike
 

shorthair

40 Cal
Joined
Sep 6, 2013
Messages
189
Reaction score
180
Ok, I got a message about not being nice. So, rather than using a correct ( not being ugly) word ill say it again.

So, after two people that don't know what the problem is looked at this Dragoon, they made a decision as to what is wrong with it.


Just to be clear, the word "ignorant" means that you "don’t know" . . .(that's why there's an "lol" ) doesn't mean you're stupid, dumb or anything ugly . I'm ignorant about a lot of things but S A.'s isn't one of them. The op is asking the question, today's gunsmiths are "familiar " at best . . . and I just disagree with the decision "they" made.

If my post hurt anyone's feelings, I apologize.

Here's a "heads up". If you get a new cylinder, it will end up the same way. Fix the problem, save your cylinder and you won't need to buy a new cylinder. ( I'm trying to save you some money.
Ignorant is fixable with information while stupid is not.
I definitely agree that we all begin Ignorant and experience cures that condition as long as we pay a little bit of attention.
 

Musket69

32 Cal
Joined
May 16, 2022
Messages
31
Reaction score
37
A broken stop and trigger spring will cause same problem but will be constant, not erratic . There may also be a worn "spring arm" (for want of a better term) on the bolt itself. Only a complete teardown will illiminate these as a cause of the problem.
 
Joined
Oct 17, 2006
Messages
960
Reaction score
658
There's a MUCH better fix!! A shoot all day without "tearing it down" fix. Search the forums . . . There's even a "never 'tear it down' again" fix!!

Mike
I couldn't agree more. I just got back 2 1862 police models from Dave Yeager at coshisemuzzleloaders.com that I had the never tear own again fix done to and the difference is night and day. Either him or Mike at goonsgunworks.com will turn an open top into a thing of joy.
 
Joined
Dec 26, 2021
Messages
178
Reaction score
250
I couldn't agree more. I just got back 2 1862 police models from Dave Yeager at coshisemuzzleloaders.com that I had the never tear own again fix done to and the difference is night and day. Either him or Mike at goonsgunworks.com will turn an open top into a thing of joy.
Amen Brother
My old pair of "Goonized" 1860 Army revolvers have a total of a thousand + rounds (I keep a barrel record) with no cap jams and I have purposefully tried to jam them. Brackett may not be the only game in town but he is a good and now has better fixes.When he says " reliable as a suppository gun" he is not kidding.
Respectfully
Bunk
 
Top