Double Balling

Discussion in 'Percussion Rifles' started by Griz44Mag, Dec 14, 2019.

Help Support Muzzle Loading Forum by donating:

  1. Dec 14, 2019 #1

    Griz44Mag

    Griz44Mag

    Griz44Mag

    40 Cal. MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2017
    Messages:
    1,747
    Likes Received:
    776
    Location:
    Republic of Texas, District of Krum
    Since the thread from a couple of years back I have been itching to try it.
    So I finally did.
    The Numrich underhammer I have has a massive barrel on it with wall thicknesses twice what any other gun I have is, so I picked it as the weapon to use.
    I loaded it with my usual 80gr load of 2f and sent a patched .575 ball down the tube, followed by a second patched .575 ball.
    Capped it, took aim (at 50 yards) and let her go.....
    Recoil was about the same as a TC conical, not too bad but definitely more than a normal round ball load.
    To my surprise, accuracy was not too bad either. One of the balls hit about an inch low and the other off to the right about 2"
    Felt good so I repeated the load and fired again.
    Four holes within the 3" ring around the X.
    All in all, not too bad of a pattern.
    Anyone ever try three?
     
    Woodnbow, Britsmoothy and Cowboy like this.
  2. Dec 14, 2019 #2

    Cowboy

    Cowboy

    Cowboy

    58 Cal. MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2015
    Messages:
    2,448
    Likes Received:
    225
    Location:
    From Cody Wyoming, now lives in Oakwood Illinois
    I’ve double balled a couple of times? Not intentionally though! More like double loading due to running my mouth with others during loading process.

    Anyway, mine kicked the snot out of me when fired! LOL

    Respectfully, Cowboy
     
  3. Dec 14, 2019 #3

    ugly old guy

    ugly old guy

    ugly old guy

    40 Cal

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2019
    Messages:
    276
    Likes Received:
    120
    Never tried shooting more than one at a time, myself.
    Never felt the need, I suppose.
     
    Cowboy likes this.
  4. Dec 14, 2019 #4

    Cowboy

    Cowboy

    Cowboy

    58 Cal. MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2015
    Messages:
    2,448
    Likes Received:
    225
    Location:
    From Cody Wyoming, now lives in Oakwood Illinois
    Me neither brother! Just seemed to work out that way!! LOL
     
    DaveC likes this.
  5. Dec 14, 2019 #5

    Griz44Mag

    Griz44Mag

    Griz44Mag

    40 Cal. MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2017
    Messages:
    1,747
    Likes Received:
    776
    Location:
    Republic of Texas, District of Krum
    It was not really a "need" on my part. I ran across a fellow black powder hunter while at the range and he told me he always hunted (pig) with double balls and an extra 20gr of powder. That powder charge in a 54 is not in excess but is a very stout charge. Just for kicks (literally) I wanted to see what kind of accuracy it would produce.
     
    tenngun, renegadehunter and Woodnbow like this.
  6. Dec 19, 2019 #6

    Are. M.

    Are. M.

    Are. M.

    32 Cal

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2019
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    19
    Location:
    Johnston Co., NC
    Double Balled my GPR and Crockett .32, you know, for funsies. 50gr powder load in GPR, 25gr in the Crockett. I took my time ramming the second one home as to not create pressure that might move it off the other ball. Seemed to work without blowing up, and the balls were about 1" apart at 50 and 25 yds respectively. I'm not going to press my luck, though. Once was plenty.
     
  7. Dec 19, 2019 #7

    Loyalist Dave

    Loyalist Dave

    Loyalist Dave

    Cannon MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2011
    Messages:
    8,696
    Likes Received:
    1,397
    Location:
    People's Republic of Maryland
    Back when I was a teen, Thompson Center's Hawken manual had data for loading two, patched .440 round ball in their .45 caliber Hawken rifle. (They might also have had it for the .50...don't remember that). Seems the buying public wasn't sure the .45 would work well on whitetails, or maybe it was intended for mule deer out west...,

    Today, in a lot of places, such as in my state, it's illegal if you're going for deer.

    LD
     
  8. Dec 19, 2019 #8

    Juice Jaws

    Juice Jaws

    Juice Jaws

    54 Cal. MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2006
    Messages:
    1,733
    Likes Received:
    656
    Location:
    Near Yosemite Park
    Done it a few times on some shooting games, cut the plank in halve, knocking down bowling pins, etc. To me kicks more than it is worth.
     
  9. Dec 19, 2019 #9

    Mark Herman

    Mark Herman

    Mark Herman

    40 Cal

    Joined:
    May 22, 2019
    Messages:
    239
    Likes Received:
    57
    Was at a match some time ago and by the end of the day was really tired. Had 2 shots left so double balled my .45, can't remember the load. Both balls hit in the black at 25 yards.
     
  10. Dec 19, 2019 #10

    Boomerang

    Boomerang

    Boomerang

    40 Cal.

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2015
    Messages:
    570
    Likes Received:
    141
    Location:
    North East Indiana
    If you are intentionally double balling, it is better to load the first ball about an inch down the bore then load the other one on top of it and ram both of them home at the same time to eliminate the compressed air pocket that might move your second ball off of the first one after it is loaded.
     
  11. Dec 19, 2019 #11

    Smokey Plainsman

    Smokey Plainsman

    Smokey Plainsman

    50 Cal.

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2014
    Messages:
    1,688
    Likes Received:
    292
    There are stories of the old timers using a double ball's load against Winnie Pooh's nastier cousins.
     
    Britsmoothy likes this.
  12. Dec 20, 2019 #12

    Britsmoothy

    Britsmoothy

    Britsmoothy

    70 Cal. MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2007
    Messages:
    6,113
    Likes Received:
    1,534
    Location:
    England.
    Come up against one of them and there is certainly plenty of Pooh!

    I'll get my coat.....
    :horseback:
     
    DaveC, RonT, SamTex1949 and 1 other person like this.
  13. Dec 20, 2019 #13

    Dr5x

    Dr5x

    Dr5x

    50 Cal. MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2004
    Messages:
    1,891
    Likes Received:
    394
    Location:
    GREATER ST. LOUIS COUNTY
    I DOUBLE BALLED ONE time and got a bad case of purple shoulder that spread about two feet.
    I didn't look to see what happened on the target. I was trying to get my eyes to line up with their proper openings.
    I do not think it is wise to replicate the British proof test so close to your head.
    I didn't just double ball, I also double powdered, putting in 73 grains of 2ff twice.. That's when I learned not to visit while shooting at the range.

    Dutch Schoultz
     
  14. Dec 20, 2019 #14

    Griz44Mag

    Griz44Mag

    Griz44Mag

    40 Cal. MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2017
    Messages:
    1,747
    Likes Received:
    776
    Location:
    Republic of Texas, District of Krum
    Dutch,
    I think the double powder is probably what rang the bell so hard....
    The double ball with a normal powder charge did not create a recoil that was unmanageable.
    But then also considering, I am somewhat of a recoil junkie.
     
  15. Dec 20, 2019 #15

    Spikebuck

    Spikebuck

    Spikebuck

    69 Cal. MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2010
    Messages:
    3,638
    Likes Received:
    273
    Location:
    On the Mississippi in SE Minnesota
    I would agree that was the case.

    If you think about it, a .530 ball (I know you said you did a .575) is about half the weight of a Hornady GP Bullet in the same caliber. So as you stated in your first post, it felt about like shooting a conical, which makes a lot of sense.

    Roundball's experiments with double balling, documented here a few years ago, resulted very much in the same accuracy as everyone is describing here...an inch or so apart at 50 yards. Unfortunately, all of his pictures are gone now, so the target pictures can't be viewed.

    What would be interesting as a next step is to shoot single and double ball loads into something that would be able to measure if there is a penetration difference. I'm wondering if the same amount of powder is pushing the double ball load at a similar velocity....I doubt it. At closer ranges, doesn't matter enough, but at a little longer ranges, I suspect that with a slower start, they would be dropping faster and have less energy than a single ball from the same powder load. I was thinking one could measure by chronographing the load, but I wonder if the double ball would confuse the chrono. ???
     
  16. Dec 20, 2019 #16

    Spence10

    Spence10

    Spence10

    Cannon

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2010
    Messages:
    7,429
    Likes Received:
    394
    Location:
    Kentucky
    It isn't, it can't. Benjamin Robins worked that out in early 18th century, and said the velocity of double balls with the same powder charge will be 30% slower.

    Spence
     
    Britsmoothy likes this.
  17. Dec 20, 2019 #17

    Griz44Mag

    Griz44Mag

    Griz44Mag

    40 Cal. MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2017
    Messages:
    1,747
    Likes Received:
    776
    Location:
    Republic of Texas, District of Krum
    Interesting question. I have a magnetospeed and it has recorded three rounds bursts from a (unmentionable class 3).
    One of the outings I will take it and see if I can get a reading on a doubleball, I suspect it will see the shot as a single shot since the balls should be stacked as they leave the muzzle. Simple physics should seem to dictate that the same energy used to push a double as used to push a single should produce half the speed, unless of course you have unused energy that exists the muzzle (flash is powder burning in the air and not pushing the load.) If the load is starting at half speed then the unused powder from a single may have time to burn off in the barrel in a double resulting in better use of available power.
     
  18. Dec 20, 2019 #18

    Britsmoothy

    Britsmoothy

    Britsmoothy

    70 Cal. MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2007
    Messages:
    6,113
    Likes Received:
    1,534
    Location:
    England.
    This is the good thing about black powder. It actually gets more efficient with more weight up front. To a point that is.
     
    Woodnbow likes this.
  19. Dec 20, 2019 #19

    Walkingeagle

    Walkingeagle

    Walkingeagle

    32 Cal.

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2012
    Messages:
    606
    Likes Received:
    449
    Location:
    Alberta
    I, myself did the double ball test many years ago in a TC Hawken .50 percussion. Loaded 2 patched balls over 100gr Pyro RS. At 50 yards accuracy was not great at all. More like an 14” group if I recall correctly. Never tried again after that.
    Walk
     
  20. Dec 21, 2019 #20

    Cowboy

    Cowboy

    Cowboy

    58 Cal. MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2015
    Messages:
    2,448
    Likes Received:
    225
    Location:
    From Cody Wyoming, now lives in Oakwood Illinois
    Like I had already mentioned earlier in this topic, I like Dutch had double loaded,twice everything! Just like Dutch, it was due to being distracted with others during the loading process.

    Lastly, I had the snot knocked out of me the both times I did this! Sure it probably wont be my last time either?

    Respectfully, Cowboy
     

Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page

Group Builder
arrow_white