I would start with a lyman great plains rifle one of the older ones.
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Do i need a custom flintlock rifle??
- Thread starter Rebel jim
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Like so many have said... Good lock, good lock! I have two custom flintlocks. One Siler, one Kibler. Love them both. Be wary of production guns! Sometimes they're ok, other times terrible. My dad bought me a super cheap flintlock back in the '70's. Sparked great for a long time. Bought a Pedersoli Kentucky flinter about five years ago, barely threw a spark! Sent me a new frizzen that didn't fit, but a bit of shade tree grinding made it fit. Still not much sparking. Made it into a percussion and gave it to my nephew. Now I've bought custom guns with great locks and my joy is near unbounded!!
i am a southern man also. in the woods of SC, a breeze is a welcome rare happening here. as far as for killing deer with a 40, it won't bounce off i assure you! shot placement is key with anything, anywhere, anytime. and as far as production guns being reliable and accurate, one of the most reliable and accurate flintlocks i ever owned was an older Lyman Hawkin in 50cal. it went off like lightning and was super accurate, just heavy. i liked it, SC deer did not,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
My advice is to find a style you like, then build one. This way there will be no question about the quality of the parts on the rifle, plus the satisfaction of doing the work yourself.
I shoot LH so rifle selection is limited, I did just as I suggested above and have zero regrets.
I shoot LH so rifle selection is limited, I did just as I suggested above and have zero regrets.
While @Rebel jim may not need a custom flint lock rifle to have the enjoyable experience of shooting a flint lock rifle, he does need a reliable lock. One Rebel jim has established a budget to purchase the rifle, there are a couple of items to consider. First, he should look for a used rifle with a lock from one of the well-known lock makers. A lock from Chambers, Siler, Kibler, Caywood, Mold and Gun, Davis, or L&R in that more or less order of preference can be made into high performing locks. I would be looking for a used rifle with one of those locks. Second, he should verify the quality of the geometry of the lock by seeing how well the lock is putting sparks into the pan. Then it's time to look at the touch hole and the fit of the lock to the breech of the rifle.
New, out of the box locks will need some polishing of the parts that touch another part and general deburring. The production locks from Pedersoli or Investarms (Lyman, Cabelas et. al.) Thompson Center can be made into reliable locks with polishing and probably some hardening and tempering. It's tough to swallow but spending money on a new lock from anybody is probably a worthwhile expense and necessary for most new production locks. The factories just can't afford the amount of time it would take to tune a lock on the production line.
The L&R RPL (replacement) locks are designed to be close to being a drop in placement for many common rifles. Often there is removal of wood in the lock mortise to accommodate the differences in the springs. But that is another $200 to add to the expense of purchasing a rifle. And there is still the polishing and deburring of the parts.
New, out of the box locks will need some polishing of the parts that touch another part and general deburring. The production locks from Pedersoli or Investarms (Lyman, Cabelas et. al.) Thompson Center can be made into reliable locks with polishing and probably some hardening and tempering. It's tough to swallow but spending money on a new lock from anybody is probably a worthwhile expense and necessary for most new production locks. The factories just can't afford the amount of time it would take to tune a lock on the production line.
The L&R RPL (replacement) locks are designed to be close to being a drop in placement for many common rifles. Often there is removal of wood in the lock mortise to accommodate the differences in the springs. But that is another $200 to add to the expense of purchasing a rifle. And there is still the polishing and deburring of the parts.
Rock Home Isle
54 Cal.
Yeah…if you have skills, your going to be very happy with a Kibler Kit. Once it’s completed, you’ll have a beautiful…fully functional flintlock.
Keep in mind that Investarms made Lyman rifles until recently. They still make the guns under their own name. Flinters and LH versions are available from muzzle-loaders.com I've had good luck with Lyman/Investarms percussion guns and, based on that, recently acquired a Lyman flinter.
A few other things to keep in mind:
1) the idea of purchasing a 'lifetime' gun is largely a myth. Tastes change, circumstances change, abilities change. You may not even like monkeying with flinters. Why get locked in by a big expenditure? People who barely know what they want now aren't going to know what they'll want 20 yrs hence. That goes for all of us, it wasn't a slam.
2) the people who have spent big $ on a custom flinter will seldom say it was money wasted...even if it was.
3) if it's reliable ignition you're after, you've got that...in your percussion guns. Spending a lot to get where you are now doesn't make sense. Neither do expensive locks that always work and don't require much in the way of learning about flintlocks.
4) buying a big $ custom flinter will probably:
- lock you into that gun or
- force you to sell it to recoup some of the investment if you decide to move on
Ideally you'd like to keep it around for comparison, a spare, or if it again appeals to your taste. You can do that if you don't have much in it.
5) deerstalkert offered probably the best advice of the thread.
Good Luck!
A few other things to keep in mind:
1) the idea of purchasing a 'lifetime' gun is largely a myth. Tastes change, circumstances change, abilities change. You may not even like monkeying with flinters. Why get locked in by a big expenditure? People who barely know what they want now aren't going to know what they'll want 20 yrs hence. That goes for all of us, it wasn't a slam.
2) the people who have spent big $ on a custom flinter will seldom say it was money wasted...even if it was.
3) if it's reliable ignition you're after, you've got that...in your percussion guns. Spending a lot to get where you are now doesn't make sense. Neither do expensive locks that always work and don't require much in the way of learning about flintlocks.
4) buying a big $ custom flinter will probably:
- lock you into that gun or
- force you to sell it to recoup some of the investment if you decide to move on
Ideally you'd like to keep it around for comparison, a spare, or if it again appeals to your taste. You can do that if you don't have much in it.
5) deerstalkert offered probably the best advice of the thread.
Good Luck!
Something to consider, if the OP decides to build a rifle, is that depending on what lock he uses the rifle can use either a flint or a percussion lock. My rifle currently has the percussion lock on it, but the flintlock and liners are fitted to it. When I get proficient shooting it offhand the flintlock will be installed.
My first flinter was a CVA Kentucky rifle. I didn’t have anyone to teach me. I overfilled the pan and allowed the powder to enter the touch hole. Every time it fired; it blew burning powder across my forehead. I took it home, cleaned it, and took it to the gun shop for a consignment sale. I shot percussion guns ever since, until about two years ago when I was reading a book on Flintlocks and the author talked about that very thing. Then the light bulb went on. “So, that’s what I did wrong”!
I started with a CVA Frontier Rifle. The first thing I did was polish the Frizzen screw, the bottom of the frizzen, and the top of the spring where they meet. The next step would have been to polish the inner lock parts. I ended up selling it to a friend and he did that. I also had a CVA Flintlock Mountain rifle. Did the same but not the innards. I sold that at my local shop on consignment as I had purchased a Custom Jim Chambers Issac Haines rifle with a Siler lock and Davis triggers. There is a noticeable difference.
I buy, sell and trade guns to support my hobby. I also sold many of my modern guns as I shoot mostly Muzzleloaders. That’s how I was able to afford the expensive one. I recently acquired two flintlock half-stock rifles, a Lyman Deer Stalker and a CVA Hawken. I polished the screw, frizzen, and spring on that one. Ignition was considerably faster than the one (Lyman) I left as is from the factory. I have a saying that some folks don’t agree with, “Factory locks eat rocks!”.
Now, to answer your question. Many are happy with their factory-produced guns such as the Pennsylvania rifle you’re considering. I’ve already mentioned a few tricks to obtain faster ignition. Mostly involving polishing parts. Some locks have bad ergonomics. The only way you can obtain reliable ignition is to heat and bend either the cock or the frizzen, then you’ll have to reharden both. You can also try another trick like putting a piece of leather under the back of the flint to change the angle. L&R makes a replacement lock for Traditions guns. They are not “Drop-In” ready. They are not finished, the outside of the plate is left rough. You can polish it and leave it bright, brown or blue it.
I have not shot any Flintlock Pedersoli guns so I can’t advise you there, other than I’ve mostly heard good things about their locks. However, if you’re going to spend that kind of money, a little more and you could have a Kibler kit since you sound like a person who can work with his hands. You can also purchase kits from Track of the Wolf or Pecatonica River for about what you’re going to spend on the Traditions Long rifle.
Once you have the rifle in your possession, post another thread and we’ll talk about the next steps for dialing it in.
Good Luck!
Walt
I started with a CVA Frontier Rifle. The first thing I did was polish the Frizzen screw, the bottom of the frizzen, and the top of the spring where they meet. The next step would have been to polish the inner lock parts. I ended up selling it to a friend and he did that. I also had a CVA Flintlock Mountain rifle. Did the same but not the innards. I sold that at my local shop on consignment as I had purchased a Custom Jim Chambers Issac Haines rifle with a Siler lock and Davis triggers. There is a noticeable difference.
I buy, sell and trade guns to support my hobby. I also sold many of my modern guns as I shoot mostly Muzzleloaders. That’s how I was able to afford the expensive one. I recently acquired two flintlock half-stock rifles, a Lyman Deer Stalker and a CVA Hawken. I polished the screw, frizzen, and spring on that one. Ignition was considerably faster than the one (Lyman) I left as is from the factory. I have a saying that some folks don’t agree with, “Factory locks eat rocks!”.
Now, to answer your question. Many are happy with their factory-produced guns such as the Pennsylvania rifle you’re considering. I’ve already mentioned a few tricks to obtain faster ignition. Mostly involving polishing parts. Some locks have bad ergonomics. The only way you can obtain reliable ignition is to heat and bend either the cock or the frizzen, then you’ll have to reharden both. You can also try another trick like putting a piece of leather under the back of the flint to change the angle. L&R makes a replacement lock for Traditions guns. They are not “Drop-In” ready. They are not finished, the outside of the plate is left rough. You can polish it and leave it bright, brown or blue it.
I have not shot any Flintlock Pedersoli guns so I can’t advise you there, other than I’ve mostly heard good things about their locks. However, if you’re going to spend that kind of money, a little more and you could have a Kibler kit since you sound like a person who can work with his hands. You can also purchase kits from Track of the Wolf or Pecatonica River for about what you’re going to spend on the Traditions Long rifle.
Once you have the rifle in your possession, post another thread and we’ll talk about the next steps for dialing it in.
Good Luck!
Walt
IMHO - a bespoke flinter/percussion will be much closer to being period correct than one of the factory made commercial bullet launchers on the market. The next step after you acquire a muzzle loader U might transition over into reinacting in which case most events disallow modern look alike pieces. Just my opinion 
Beautiful gun, I could only pray to afford something that nice.
Personally I wish I had saved myself some money in the end and purchased a custom/semi custom gun right from the beginning. Buy what you can afford, and understand that the better it performs and handles the more likely you are to be enthralled with our hobby. If you can wait around and be patient/watchful, many custom or semi custom made guns can be found at reasonable prices. If you feel like you will really get into this hobby, I think this is the way to go. Whatever you start with, I think the basic requirement you should look for is a quality lock. It all starts from there. A crappy lock will run you off and make you cuss up a storm. If you have any woodworking skills then there are some very good, affordable guns that can be built from kits, whether from rough pieces or kits closer to semi "snap together". Good luck!
You certainly cannot go wrong there! I think in the end you will be very grateful that you decided to go this way. Kibler is a great name in this industry, and a great supporter of our hobby. I am excited for ya!
Thank you!
Killerangel
36 Cl.
My first Flintlock....finished last September....was a Kibler kit finished by a custom gun maker. I wanted to get into Flintlock shooting and hunting; not fine tuning a poorly engineered cheap gun, or building a kit with limited time and no knowledge of what makes a great flintlock a great flintlock. It was well worth the investment as it is a beautiful, well made shooter and all I really need to concentrate on and "learn" is the shooting/loads/maintenance areas...and that's enough. Great choice on the Kibler ....consider having someone "build/finish" it for you.
yes !!!!!!!! worst rifle is older lyman gpr flint guaranteed not to fire when i need it. best one is my custom .62 smooth rifle with chambers early ketland lock. i'm a lefty but only buy and shoot righties. if you dont have much skill buy a kibler in the white or a finished one from tennessee valley muzzleloaders or watch track of the wolf.
Maybe one doesn't need a custom flintlock rifle to enjoy the flintlock rifle experience, but often one would need a custom flint lock tuning to get the best performance out of the rifle one has.
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