Different lubes different results.

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TreeMan

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I have a Rifle Shoppe Harpers ferry I shoot in matches. I just got it a few months ago from a seller here. For 20 years I’ve always used the Dutch Dry lube method and wipe between shots. The Harpers Ferry didn’t disappoint as I’ve won several matches using 80gr 2F Goex, .018 7/1 balistol/water dry patches. When developing this accurate load I had to knock the rear sight to the left a good bit. With hunting season approaching I wanted to test the POI using 100gr of 2F, .018 patches and mink oil lube for easy follow up shots without wiping. Odd thing is that this load shoots more accurate than the dry patch and wiping between shots and I had to knock the sight back exactly dead center. I then dropped the load back down to 80gr and continued with the mink oil and no wiping. Continued to shoot one hole groups at 25 yards. Not sure why the mink oil patches moved the poi back 2 inches to the right compared to the dry patches. I fired about 20 rounds without wiping and never a problem loading. I’ve never had this happen with any of my other rifles that I’ve tried mink oil vs Dutch’s system. I’ve had POI change up and down but never left to right. I’m thinking the radius grooves colerain barrel likes the greasy patches to fill the groves better than my square groove green mountain and Pedersoli barrels. Thoughts?
 
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Grenadier1758

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I have for all practical purposes, the same rifle you have. I bought most of the parts from Track of the Wolf at a time when the Rifle Shoppe Harper's Ferry was featured as their advanced projects kit. I have the Colerain radiused grooved barrel. I had the Rifle Shoppe build the lock. I use the 7 water 1 part WSO mixture Dutch advocated many years ago before he switched to the dry patch method. My Water Soluble Oil is the old NAPA WSO oil before they changed the formula. Now the WSO of choice is Ballistol. My sights are centered on the barrel. I'm happy with the results.

2HF_Practice_01.jpg


Did the practice target, then raised my hold a little. Yes, that is three hits in the group.

20190604_110111_02.jpg


Yes its a 25 yard target off a bench rest, but it made me happy that day.

Sorry that I don't have any idea why there is such a difference between your dry patch and the mink oil lubricated patch. I may have to ,ake up some dry patches and see what happens.
 

Art Caputo

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I have also found that I generally get an increased number of shots before swabbing with my radius groove rifles. I’m more cautious about the number of shots taken without swabbing with square cut rifling because the final load stops very abruptly....dead in its tracks. Can’t pull or push ithe ball without squirting a fair amount of Ballistol down the bore and letting it soak for 5-10 minutes. The radius grooved barrels seem to be more gradual in the difficulty to seat the ball, giving some warning that you should swab the bore. Over the years I have evolved to using Mink Oil(TOTW) as a lube for all my rifles. Accuracy has been at least equal to other lubes(including Dutch’s method) with more shots between swabbing with sustained accuracy.
 

TreeMan

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I’m going to do a little more testing this week. I also precut my mink oiled patches today instead of cutting them at the muzzle as I do with the dry lubed ones. I shoot at a match monthly and it would be nice to get the same accuracy without cutting at the muzzle and wiping between every shot. The results I got today seem to suggest I can. I still can’t figure out how the changed impacted the windage between lubes and cleaning. The strange world of muzzleloading lol.
 

Mulebrain

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Folks you just don't need all them concoctions, you just don't

The right ball patch combo, with a good barrel etc.....

You wanna be the best, well learn from the champions who are.
 
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TreeMan

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Folks you just don't need all them concoctions, you just don't

The right ball patch combo, with a good barrel etc.....

You wanna be the best, well learn from the champions who are.
Well I normally always place in the top three rifle shooters in all my monthly matches with up to 25 shooters. That includes handguns too. I was just sharing my new experience with a round bottom rifle barrel that I’ve never had before. There wasn’t much as far as concoctions other than dry patch vs oiled patch and cleaning between shots.
 

Brokennock

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Dawn soap diluted with water, not my target but my friends, who has been at this for over 50 years

View attachment 41353
Dawn isn't a "concoction"? Really? Read the ingredients. Doesn't seem too different from water soluble oil mixed with,,,,, water.
What are the ingredients in 100% pure mink oil? Ingredients in olive oil? How about beeswax?
 

jonboyb

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I’m thinking the radius grooves colerain barrel likes the greasy patches to fill the groves better than my square groove green mountain and Pedersoli barrels. Thoughts?
I've always been a square cut rifling guy....mainly based on reading versus actual experience, but I just picked up a flinter with a Colerain .40 radius cut and I have a bag of greasy Eastern Maine .018 prelubes that I had shelved. I wanted to get some shots in real quick with the new gun and grabbed the sticky prelubes. First 6 shots out of the gun is one of my better targets....especially first time out. I've had mediocre results from my other rifles, but the Colerain loves them. I tend to agree with your hypothesis Treeman 😂

20200828_092248.jpg
 
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Mulebrain

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Dawn isn't a "concoction"? Really? Read the ingredients. Doesn't seem too different from water soluble oil mixed with,,,,, water.
What are the ingredients in 100% pure mink oil? Ingredients in olive oil? How about beeswax?
Your right I guess it is, however I was referring to something that is cheap as all get out, and works.

I guess spit is a concoction as well, now when I woods walk that's really all I can use
 

Brokennock

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Your right I guess it is, however I was referring to something that is cheap as all get out, and works.

I guess spit is a concoction as well, now when I woods walk that's really all I can use
I do like the fact that Dawn is something we may have on hand anyway and is useful for other things. Some of the stuff I see using and mixing together is stuff I would only be buying for that one purpose.
I'd like to find something I don't have to buy. No bear season here yet. Olives nor coconuts aren't going to grow here, and I can't see myself pressing the oils out anyway.
Spit is ruled out as I can't hunt with it, and I have to live wads and wadding as well as the occasional patch.

In the end, other than straight fat/oil, animal or plant based, it is all concoctions.
 
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olskool

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Dawn soap diluted with water, not my target but my friends, who has been at this for over 50 years

View attachment 41353
mulebrain, your friend that shot the target, is he in SC? I am in the low country of SC and there ain't many of us BP burners down here. I am curious to know it looks like the target is marked SC,,,,,,,,,,,,
 

smo

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I would re shoot the dry patch load now just too see if it moves again....

2" is a good bit at 25 yards.

Some great targets posted above, Guys there's some Folks out there that can shoot...

And I'm sure each one has that certain , preferred lube.

Own a .54 cal rifle with a Colerain barrel with radius bottom rifling.
It likes a "moist" patch using spit,Olive Oil or Hornadys One Shot.

I haven't tried an overly wet lubed patch in my gun..
The OO & One Shot patches I use feel similar to the Dutch method patches... almost dry.

I'm interested in seeing what your results are if you try the dry patches again.....
 

Griz44Mag

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I tried a few different lubes, but all around, all seasons, all uses - a mink lubed patch works the best in every gun I own.
I prelube in small batches by stacking precut rounds in a cap tin and adding just enough melted mink to penetrate the stack.
Fast, easy and super easy to use at the range or in the field. It won't dry out like spit does.
The treated dry patches using moose milk or ballistol did not produce consistent results for me.
 

smo

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That's how I do mine as well with the OO or the One Shot ... The spit patches which I use now only in emergency situations and they are usually cut at the muzzle.

Emergency being, I ran out of pre lubed or lost my tin ...
 

BJCollings

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All this talk about different lubes. I am fortunate as I can't shoot with a crap and wouldn't be able to tell the difference anyway🤪🤪
 

1853enfield

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i used to use murphy's oil soap. i quit black powder shooting for several years and am just getting back into it. i had forgotten how much fun it was...
now lube i am a cast bullet cartridge shooter lube is important and different amounts, types makes a difference. one thing i learned right away was too much lube was worse than to little. one lube groove half full was usually better than filling all of them full. i have shot thousands of rounds and playing around with lubes and the amount applied was worth the time spent.
 

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