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Damascus steel in the Rockies?

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Jesselee4

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Modern reenactor traders are selling some beautiful Damascus blades. While the technique preexisted the Rocky Mountain fur trade era, how likely would it be that a trapper actually had one?
If so, were “rat tails” being made and/or used? I should have scrutinized this one better, not happy.
My butcher knife here has the right look and feel but doesn’t take a good edge; disappointing.
I appreciate your advice
 

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AlexB

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Making pattern welded steel by hand without a press is very time and labor intensive.
Add in loss of stock with each layer and my guess is no.
Soft iron with a high carbon bit for the edge welded in absolutely.
 
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99.99% of the "Damascus" steel we see these days is fake azz crapanure.

It's done through acid etching or some other means of coloring.

Anyone who says they're selling "Damacus" products, demand seeing their furnace, forge, anvil, etc.

Damascus and Patina. Two words that are grossly misused.
 

Jesse OConnor

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Making pattern welded steel by hand without a press is very time and labor intensive.
Add in loss of stock with each layer and my guess is no.
Soft iron with a high carbon bit for the edge welded in absolutely.
Thank you, but I didn’t expect mountain men forged themselves but could have gotten it from big city sources in the Eastern US or from traders from the Near East
 

AlexB

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Even the term Damascus is incorrect.
Wootz steel was the product then that is called Damascus now that is actually pattern welded if its real.
I usually used 1084 and 15n20 when I was feeling itch to make some.
 
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He wouldn't. Damascus steel was limited to the Middle East. Modern Damascus started showing up in the US in the 1950's. Just because it existed in the world, it didn't exist in the US during the Fur Trade. Those making and selling it at events, or as Fur Trade, are sorely mistaken...
 
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The analogy I heard was that canvas shoes with rubber soles were first invented in the 1830's, but this doesn't mean that mountain men wore sneakers.

I don't think you would have seen much, if any, damascus steel in the Rockies, back in the day. The cutlers supplying the fur trade did use shear steel, which I believe is steel with a carburized surface. To over simplify, this could be folded and laminated once to put the carburized metal in the middle of the blade, so if the blade was beveled equally on both sides, the carburized metal would be at the cutting edge.

A lot of old Indian knives were sharpened on just one side. There have been a lot of theories as to why this was done (better for skinning, better for slicing jerky, easier to sharpen...), but a buddy of mine suggested years ago that the really cheap trade knives were of single-shear steel, i.e. only carburized on the surface. If you sharpen the knife equally on both sides, you have soft metal at the cutting edge. Sharpening on only one side would leave some of the harder, carburized steel at the edge, for better wear. That seemed plausible to me.

Please don't be offended, but that knife on the left in the first picture looks more like some sort of Japanese fighting knife than anything you would have seen in the fur trade. It is true that there were "country made" knives in use... at least a couple were known to have been made by mountain man Jim Baker... but if you read the period literature, the terms you see used most are butcher knife, and maybe to a lesser extent, scalping knife. This is from Rufus Sage, Rocky Mountain Life:

R. Sage - Rocky Mtn Life, p. 38.png

... and this is from George Frederick Ruxton, Adventures in Mexico and the Rocky Mountains:

Ruxton - Adventures... p.243.png


Stick or "rat tail" tangs were known on some trade knives, but I don't think they used much on the knives supplied to the Rocky Mountain fur trade. The majority of these had half-tangs, tapering in thickness, with slab or scale handles, like the three originals on the left in the image below:

Wilson Handles - Top.JPG


Another thing you see mentioned in the period literature is "soft steel." These knives needed frequent sharpening. Note in the quote from Ruxton (above) the whetstone carried on the trapper's belt. Your butcher knife, on the right in your first photo, looks like a nice old knife; maybe not quite pre-1840, but it could easily pass for a 19th century design, which ought to be close enough. If it doesn't keep an edge well, it is probably even more period correct!

In any event, you can carry what you want, but the knife on the left in that first photo would be very atypical for a frontier trapper's equipment. Your old knife, on the right, is a much better choice. Make a plain, simple one-piece sheath for it of rawhide, and you'll be well equipped.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob
 

Loyalist Dave

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Modern reenactor traders are selling some beautiful Damascus blades. While the technique preexisted the Rocky Mountain fur trade era, how likely would it be that a trapper actually had one?

Your old knife, on the right, is a much better choice. Make a plain, simple one-piece sheath for it of rawhide, and you'll be well equipped.


Agreed! It's a common problem with 18th century living history too. In my opinion, which I base on reading several lists of goods from the East Coast of the Colonies, to George Morgan's store in Kaskaskia, that too many "riflemen" want a custom, fancy knife, when in fact a common butcher knife of the period, with small pins for rivets, would've been what riflemen aka "long knives" carried.

LD
 
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