CVA Spain Hawken 50

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FatBack

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So i got a deal on one (traded a beat up Colt navy Pietta)

Made him the offer over a year ago. He came to my door with it today, looking to swap. Made sure he understood the Hawken was probably a hundred $ more valuable. He was fine with that. Plus gave him 200 caps and about 30 cast ball and some triple 7.

Looked up the letter code, 1988. He told me it was loaded, no cap. Looked at the bore, needs TLC. Tried to used the ball puller, no dice. Clean out screw on the powder drum looked bad, rusty with jimmy rig washers. Got that out. Tried to used some pliers to remove the powder drum, nipple stripped out (bad, I know, should have been more patient, used some penetrant)

Long of the short, guy had the gun a few years and probably never cleaned it, only fired a few times. It is evident i need to do a few things. First, render the powder inert, second, clean the hell out of the bore, third get that HP conical (if what he said is true) out of the gun.

As it sits, nipple and clean out screw are removed. Pretty sure I will need a new powder drum and nipple. Now for my questions...I looked at track of the wolf, I have no idea the type of powder drum I need or nipple and how to remove that drum...PB blaster and vice grips?

When the new drum goes in, how do you get the angle right for the hammer? I hope the female barrel threads for the drum are OK. I want to fire this gun but am hoping to get it running for $50 or less.

I have owned and fired two cap n balls for years, first percussion rifle. If I cant get it up, make a nice wall hanger. Thanks for any input.
 

FatBack

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Some suggested trying to find a zirc fitting of the same threads (that would be a small miracle, right?) and using a grease gun to force the load out. Threads are in very bad shape. If only a zirc fitting would do the trick.
 

FatBack

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Eh, deal made in haste. Looks like I did not exactly trade up? That's ok, I still have my nice 1858 pietta buffalo model and my Lyman 2 cavity mold and ladle that holds maybe 3 ounces? Was not a real fan of the Colt design (apologies to Colt fans) a friend was going to just give it to me, because he shoots those new fangled things and would never shoot it.

I gave him a nylon bullwhip I made, seemed some reciprocity was in order.
 

bang

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Dixie, Product ID #: NP0905. Says for all cva. 1/2 body, 10x.1.25mm, nipple 6x1mm. Since it already has nipple drilled it may be the threading matches up on clocking.
I know about bores. I refurbished 2 barrel a few months back.
 

FatBack

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Dixie, Product ID #: NP0905. Says for all cva. 1/2 body, 10x.1.25mm, nipple 6x1mm. Since it already has nipple drilled it may be the threading matches up on clocking.
I know about bores. I refurbished 2 barrel a few months back.
Do i need some abrasive paste? Pretty sure Hoppes #9 wont cut it. Can I remove the barrel and breech plug, fairly easy? Afraid if I do, rust will rear it's corrosive head. Aiming for a hunting gun, not wall hanger.
 

bang

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Do i need some abrasive paste? Pretty sure Hoppes #9 wont cut it. Can I remove the barrel and breech plug, fairly easy? Afraid if I do, rust will rear it's corrosive head. Aiming for a hunting gun, not wall hanger.
If you would like I can send you pixs of the tools I made and description of what I did. It's not difficult but does take time to do.
 

bang

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Breach plug can be a project. Heat can be your friend. I don't know what the plug is like on your gun. My Hawken TC plug is a pretty good bit of the hex of the barrel. Put barrel in big vise with some leather between. Mount it just a couple of inches from plug. Tighten the vise plus a cheater. I use a large pipe wrench with flat metal plates in the jaws to keep from maring it. Tighten the wrench with big pliers. I put it so I pulled up. Pull don't jerk. If it doesn't budge heat it with propane torch and go for it.
PM on way, give me a minute.
 

Black Jack

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Breach plug can be a project. Heat can be your friend. I don't know what the plug is like on your gun. My Hawken TC plug is a pretty good bit of the hex of the barrel. Put barrel in big vise with some leather between. Mount it just a couple of inches from plug. Tighten the vise plus a cheater. I use a large pipe wrench with flat metal plates in the jaws to keep from maring it. Tighten the wrench with big pliers. I put it so I pulled up. Pull don't jerk. If it doesn't budge heat it with propane torch and go for it.
PM on way, give me a minute.
The breech plug on CVA/Traditions guns can not be removed as on many other barrels. The drum is threaded thru the barrel wall and into a machined recess in the plug. It is a very strong, proprietary system that many, including the manufacturers, say should not be tampered with. There are many threads regarding breech plugs on these guns that you can access by searching.
 

FatBack

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Am going to need a new drum, I got a zirc grease fitting that looks to have indentical threads as the nipple, if I can thread it securely in the drum, grease gun oughta push that load right out, any ever tried that?
 

Zonie

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Am going to need a new drum, I got a zirc grease fitting that looks to have indentical threads as the nipple, if I can thread it securely in the drum, grease gun oughta push that load right out, any ever tried that?
It's a common way to get stuck balls out of a muzzleloader if other methods have failed.

If the threads in the drum or bolster are OK, you might be able to find a zerk with the same threads on it. Standard sizes for nipple threads are M6-1mm for Spanish made reproductions, M6-0.75mm for most Italian made reproductions and 1/4-28 for Thompson Center Hawkins.
If you can't find a zirk in the right size, one made for a 1/8" NPT tapered pipe thread sometimes works. If you use the tapered pipe thread style do NOT screw it in with a wrench. Just put it in, finger tight. It might leak some grease out but that's better than forcing it into the hole with a wrench and damaging the existing nipple threads in the gun.
 

FatBack

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It's a common way to get stuck balls out of a muzzleloader if other methods have failed.

If the threads in the drum or bolster are OK, you might be able to find a zerk with the same threads on it. Standard sizes for nipple threads are M6-1mm for Spanish made reproductions, M6-0.75mm for most Italian made reproductions and 1/4-28 for Thompson Center Hawkins.
If you can't find a zirk in the right size, one made for a 1/8" NPT tapered pipe thread sometimes works. If you use the tapered pipe thread style do NOT screw it in with a wrench. Just put it in, finger tight. It might leak some grease out but that's better than forcing it into the hole with a wrench and damaging the existing nipple threads in the gun.
Thanks for the info but the threads on the drum are in horrible condition, it will need replacement, no doubt. The guy that owned it, likely never cleaned it. Told me it was a smooth bore, lol. Why no wrench flats on the drum, kind silly...?

I dont want to sink much money in it. Shame on me for swapping without a better inspection, live and learn.

I have a cleaning kit, just started with a 45 bristle brush. Afraid if I use a 20 gauge brush, it wont come out.

Do you think, if I use PB blaster as a bore soke, overnight it could be dangerous (as far as making the powder unstable)?
 

longcruise

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Grease zerks are tapered Thread so get one that's small enough to start in the drum and turn it in. Then push it out with the grease gun.

If you remove the breech plug you may never replace it so that you can align it to the threads of the drum.

Zonie has some good pictures of how those are put together. Maybe he'll put them up.
 

longcruise

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Deer Creek products sells new barrels for $115 with breech plug installed but probably not the drum. It may or may not be tapped for the drum???
 

Zonie

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Grease zerks are tapered Thread so get one that's small enough to start in the drum and turn it in. Then push it out with the grease gun.

If you remove the breech plug you may never replace it so that you can align it to the threads of the drum.

Zonie has some good pictures of how those are put together. Maybe he'll put them up.
See the drawing of several different breech styles I made below.

The drum on the CVA style breech screws into the breech plug after the plug is installed. Then a hole connecting the bore with the drums flame channel is drilled. That pretty much makes them a matched set.

Traditions buys their guns from the same Spanish maker that CVA used so they have the same type of breech in them. Both CVA and Traditions recommends that these breeches never be taken apart.

That said, Track of the Wolf used to offer a replacement drum for the CVA style breech. It does not extend as far into the breech plug as the factory drum does so it doesn't need the cross drilled hole in it.

I don't know if the drums they offer now will screw into the CVA breech but the do offer a 12.5mm (.492") body diameter drum with a M10-1.5mm thread on it with a M6-1mm threaded hole for the nipple. Follow this link to see it.

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/809/2

Before ordering it, it would be a good idea to call them at (763) 633-2500 and ask them if it will fit.

DRUM2.jpg
 

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