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Crowning?

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Kentuckywindage

62 Cal.
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Anything easy on the wallet that will allow me to put a fresh crown on my muzzleloaders barrel? I just cut it down due to a rust issue towards the muzzle and so now it needs a crown. Shoots awesome as is but its a little stiffer to load now.
 
Easy. Make sure the muzzle is square, and go get a round grinder ball (for a drill), about an inch in diameter. Lube it with oil, and put it on the muzzle and turn it with your hand, rotating and turning the ball over and around. You don't need much. Very simple. :wink:
 
I have heard of people using the stone chucked in a hand brace as well.I haven't tried this yet but i plan to :wink:
 
After checking all was square, I did it with a small needle file (wasn't a member here then). It loads easy w/o cutting patches and shoots great!

Looking back, I would have liked to hear the two above ideas though....
 
On a larger bore, you can crown a muzzle by simply pushing a small piece of sandpaper or emery cloth into muzzle with your thumb and turning. I did a .54 this way, and it turned out great. Just get a small square, lay it on the muzzle like a patch, and push in the center with thumb. Then turn the barrel and your thumb back and forth. You dont want the sandpaper to actually enter the bore, it should stay on the muzzle, just the middle should be depressed to cut the crown. After it is cut, finish with progressively finer grit to get a smooth finish.
 
Use the head of a lag bolt, behind some fine emery cloth to polish the crown on your MLer. I like to turn the barrel one way, while turning the lag bolt and emery cloth the opposite direction. That insures I am not putting more pressure on one spot than another, and results in an evenly polished crown. Work down through the grit sizes, from medium down to very fine. Then put oil on the finest emery cloth and polish it further. The smoother the crown is, the less likely its going to catch on any threads of your fabric patch. You will be delighted to learn how much easier it is to push a PRB down a highly polished crown, than one that is roughly cut. :thumbsup:
 
At the flea market here you can buy a cone shaped grindstone or ball shaped one you chuck in a drill. I prefer the cone shaped one. They cost a buck each. (Can also be bought at a welding shop or NAPA in the welding stuff) You can crown a barrel faster than it takes to chuck the tool & plug it in. Could also be used in a brace if you want to do it by hand. Light pressure, let the stone do the work or it will eat the stone up. :thumbsup:

Keith Lisle
 
If using a ball, or spherical cutter, the muzzle does not not have to be perfectly square. A spherical cutter will self center in a round hole. It is acually more accurate than using a lathe. A cone shaped cutter is not quite as good because if not held dead square, it will not cut dead square.
 
IMHO, when cutting a crown, be it with a ball cutter or a coned one, the end of the bore must be square to obtain a true & centered crown on the bore.

Crown.gif


You use a ball cutter & the barrel is not square on the end, the ball will hit the one side first & that will push it towards the other side & you end up with a uneven crown. If you center it on both surfaces, you still have a dif angle of crown on both sides of the barrel.

Crown1.gif


How critical is it ? I can't tell ya, I always have mine square before I crown it.

:thumbsup:

Keith Lisle
 
Not to be "picky" but in your exaggerated sketch the "ball" is hitting one edge first which would only be true if both the bbl and "ball" were held rigidly. If the "ball" is held by hand, it would contact the entire bore circumference at the same time. The "ball" doesn't know if the end of the bore is at an angle.... it'll just center on the bore. Of course if the "face"/champfer isn't square w/ the bore, the projectile upon exiting the bore will have gas leakage on one side before the other which effects accuracy. Of course this is all academic because the muzzle face/champfer is usually very square w/ the bore on most bbls. Again, not trying to "stir the pot"...Fred
 
My drawing is not too good. :grin: If you hold the ball verticle, the ball will cut uneven cutting more on one side then the other side.

If the end off the bore is not cut square, the hole is Oblong....... Even if you hold the ball at an angle & let it center by hand, you are putting a round burr into the oblong hole, the crown is not going to be even around the bore.

Again, how much dif & how critical it is, I can't tell you. I have done dozens of them & have never had an issue with them but I have always cut them square.

And also, I may not know anything at all about what I am talking about :confused: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
 
Maybe this should be a different thread, but it seems appropriately related. :confused:

I have a GPR kit sitting in the corner awaiting it's time. Eventually I'll be getting around to the problem on the factory muzzle. Here's the crux of it. While the muzzle is flat, the factory crown looks like the pic below. It's sorta like they crowned it from the side. Would the round ball method correct this? Any other ideas. The pic is a little more radical than the actual muzzle but what you see is pretty much the way it is.

gpr_muzzle_config.jpg
 
I agree that if the bbl face isn't square the bore becomes an oval and the champfer depth from the ball will vary....really a couple thou of "out of square" won't make much of a difference. CFs are much more "touchy" and also target type BP rifles that use a false muzzle to eliminate any inaccuracy attributed to a faulty champfer.....Fred
 
If a lathe is available, I'd face off the muzzle and either eliminate the existing champfer or recut the champfer w/ a single point bit. Of course you could file the face square until the champfer is gone and then rechampfer. Sending it back for a replacement bbl is another option.....Fred
 
If the muzzle is a tad off square, the ball will center itself. Whereas the outer edge of the crown will be uneven, because it isn't dead square, when the ball is making full contact, cutting all the way around, the inner edge, where it really counts, is square. This works on modern guns also. I own a .270 I did this to with a pretty deep chamfer. It shoots 5 shot groups of 3/8" center to center, and will take out a dime at 100yrds five out of five. Thats all with a cheapo scope. As long as the muzzle is eyeball square, it has always worked for me. I wasn't sure myself until I tried it. :thumbsup:
 
You'd probably be better off cutting it off and re-crowning. No matter whether you're using a ball or cone type tool, it's going to rest on both sides and when it starts "cutting" it's going to cut the same amount. The low side is going to also be at a different angle than the high side and you're going to end up with an egg-shaped hole. That is, if you can keep the tool perpendicular to the bore. One way or the other, you'll either have an oval muzzle or the bullet will contact one side of the bore longer than the other. If you have a good machinist or gunsmith with a big enough lathe with a 4 jaw chuck, he may be able to do something. By using a small boring bar tool, he might be able to bring the high side to the same level and angle as the low side, and then you could use a crowning tool to finish it.

You said that it's not quite as bad looking as the drawing shows. If it's slight, the solutions in the other posts should work. But if it's pretty bad you may have to do something like I said.
 
If the hole is not square to start with, the ball will not touch the low side, because it isn't really round. it is on an angle which acually makes it egg shaped if viewed from that angle. When the ball cuts the low side, then the inner edge is round and square. :)
 
That's true if the tool is in a fixed tool holder such as a lathe tailstock and the barrel is chucked. But a fellow using a hand held tool will let the ball or cone tool rest on the face of the muzzle no matter what the angle. The angle of one side of the crown will be different than the other although probably slight enough not to affect anything, but bullet contact with the bore will still be greater on one side than on the other and that will have an adverse effect on accuracy. This may not hurt most hunting rifles and offhand target rifles if very slight, but will really show up on bench guns and chunk guns.
 
Have it your way, but would the ball still touch the muzzle all the way around at a 20°angle? No. Because the angle makes the bore egg shaped as far as the ball is concerned. :surrender: :hatsoff:
 
I think I'll stick with my way 'cause that didn't make any sense to me. Maybe I'm just dumb. :idunno:
 
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