Converting reproduction to Percussion

[2 shots]

if not already said, track shows t/c bolsters.

 

[burlesontom]

if not already said, track shows t/c bolsters.

I have already asked the OP to show a picture of the rifle or the side of the barrel confirming that it is even a TC barrel. It looks like an Investarms barrel to me. And if it is I doubt a TC bolster with american threads will work with the Italian threads of his barrel.

He plainly stated in post #10 it is an Investarms barrel. So the idea of using TC parts is pretty much off the table.

 

[bubba.50]

Remember if you add a drum you will have to file/grind a half circle in your lock to clear the drum like mentioned in post number 4 and pictured in post #17. So you may want to look at your lock first to see if you can even do that without damaging the lock.

He won't 'damage' the TC lock but, the cutout for the drum may be visible when using the TC barrel.

 

[burlesontom]

He won't 'damage' the TC lock but, the cutout for the drum may be visible when using the TC barrel.

Thats great. But once again this in NOT a TC gun or barrel. Reread post #10. The OP states this is an Investarms gun.

 

[bubba.50]

Thats great. But once again this in NOT a TC gun or barrel. Reread post #10. The OP states this is an Investarms gun.

His GUN is a TC, his extra BARREL is Investarm. and either way, the notch for a drum will be the same.

 

[2 shots]

barrel could be cut and new [ t/c ] breech fit to it, if he wanted to go that far

 

[burlesontom]

His GUN is a TC, his extra BARREL is Investarm. and either way, the notch for a drum will be the same.

I went back and read all the post by the OP. He never once says his Hawken is a TC brand gun. And thats why early on I suggested he post a picture of the rifle. The distinctive patch box used by Investearms would remove all doubt.

And in his very first post he shows a picture of his new flint lock barrel along with the barrel for his gun. And that percussion barrel in the picture is an Investarms barrel. I have 5 Investarms guns now so should know what I am talking about.

 

[bubba.50]

I went back and read all the post by the OP. He never once says his Hawken is a TC brand gun. And thats why early on I suggested he post a picture of the rifle. The distinctive patch box used by Investearms would remove all doubt.

And in his very first post he shows a picture of his new flint lock barrel along with the barrel for his gun. And that percussion barrel in the picture is an Investarms barrel. I have 5 Investarms guns now so should know what I am talking about.

Damn, sure is important for you to be right. And even so, it don't change a single thing. Other than the inch vs metric threads and since they're basically clones/copies of each other the Investarm & the TC guns are virtually identical to the point the parts will interchange with little or no effort. Whatever will work for one will work for the other. So, the notch for the drum will be the same for either lock and other than cosmetics NOTHING will be hurt.

 

[burlesontom]

Damn, sure is important for you to be right.

Oh dear! Have you got your feelings hurt. Too bad. And yes I like being correct, especially when someone ask for help. More so when someone else is passing on bad advice.

So, the notch for the drum will be the same for either lock and other than cosmetics NOTHING will be hurt.

And just so you know neither lock has a notch for the drum. Neither TC or Investarms uses a drum set up. So no notch in the lock plate. The bolster has a groove on the bottom that fits over the top of the lock plate. I guess you didn't know that.

 

[bubba.50]

Oh dear! Have you got your feelings hurt. Too bad. And yes I like being correct, especially when someone ask for help. More so when someone else is passing on bad advice.


And just so you know neither lock has a notch for the drum. Neither TC or Investarms uses a drum set up. So no notch in the lock plate. The bolster has a groove on the bottom that fits over the top of the lock plate. I guess you didn't know that.

Nope. For you to hurt my feelings I would have to care what you think. I don't.

And yes, I know that neither TC nor Investarm used a drum. I've owned dozens of both and know what they are. That's why I said he'll have to file a notch for the drum. It's also why I said that the notch may be visible when he switches back to the factory barrel. But he'd be able to switch back & forth at will which if you'd work on your reading comprehension, is exactly what he wants to do.

TC sold a conversion kit for a while and all it consisted of was a drum to replace the vent liner and a standard TC percussion lock with the notch already in it.

 

[Walkingeagle]

For my Investarms flint to percussion conversion, I used the Lyman (Investarms) flint lock and took a die grinder to the pan till it both fit and supported the drum. Removed the frizen and spring. Worked like a charm. The used the RPL flint lock as the lock of choice for when I converted back to flint.
Walk

 

[Hermit Tim]

Hi and thanks for letting me join this group.

I’m a reproduction BP rifle user and shoot frequently. For some time I’ve wondered if I could take my 54 cal Hawken and replace the barrel with a 50 cal.

As luck would have it I stumbled onto an inexpensive 50 barrel that fits my 54 stock perfectly. Now the problem looking for a solution…it is a flint lock barrel w/o the lock set. An old timer friend suggested looking for a “percussion conversion
bolster”. I’m finding that flint lock to percussion came in many fashions and flavors. Going by the photo of the 54 and 50 barrels, would anyone have a recommendation on how to proceed?

View attachment 168217

Howdy and welcome to the group. Best of luck with your project. Plenty of good guys on here with tips and advice worth considering. Let us know how it turns out. And we like pictures alot...

 

[SDSmlf]

Gave it some thought. I figure the drum needs to be fixed in position to align with the hammer. That would require a specific start and end point of the new threads. A skill beyond me. Am I overthinking this?

If you start with a drum with no threaded hole for the nipple, it’s not all that difficult. Others offer similar, but here is a tool TOW sells for aligning and drilling the nipple hole in the drum.
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/810/1/TOOL-DRUM

 

[Bob K]

Damn, sure is important for you to be right. And even so, it don't change a single thing. Other than the inch vs metric threads and since they're basically clones/copies of each other the Investarm & the TC guns are virtually identical to the point the parts will interchange with little or no effort. Whatever will work for one will work for the other. So, the notch for the drum will be the same for either lock and other than cosmetics NOTHING will be hurt.

The Investarm barrel form and fit with my TC is very good. My trouble is that the Investarm barrel is from a flint lock rifle so the issue for me is installing the powder drum, hence the metric touch hole. Drilling and retapping seems the best solution.

I’m learning a lot from all the discussion (both good news and not so good news) and I thank everyone for their comments !

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Oh man. This question comes up at least once a month on various forums and sites that I visit. Some conversions are easy, some may as well get a second gun.

Anything is possible with enough know how, tools and funds. Back in the day, I had a single franken gun put together with a Cabelas hawken stock, Lyman locks, TC set triggers and an array of 7 different barrels to fit whatever activity or type of match I wanted.. Smoothbore, light bench, short hunting 54 cal, etc. One barrel, I cut off the factory breech area, drilled & threaded and fit a new breech plug, cut new tennon dovetails and sight dovetails my self with hand tools.

This thread should be transformed to a reference post with pictures and things to consider, like type of breech, bore wall thickness, etc. As well as a warning about the difficulty of the breech installation on Ardesa made guns.

 

[beardedhorse]

If the top flint barrel is indeed an Investarms its hook does not match that on the TC percussion. Perhaps it can be altered by soldering another strip to fit. If the barrels are 1" across the flats there is enough wall thickness to tap and drill for a 5/16 x 24 drum instead of the 1/4 x 28. I did this on my Hawken (not T.C. but scratch parts) using a Griffith Tool Company flint breech. Originally made to use with L & R. Manton flintlock. The conversion lock was the same lock plate but new percussion hammer, dished out to fit the drum and the rain gutter and bridle for frizzen left on. The problem with conversions on the same barrel is that the threads on both the touch hole liner and the drum will begin to wear and loosen requiring replacement. Track of the Wolf sells a jig for sliding over the raw drum. You rotate the jig until the intended nipple lines up with the nose of the hammer. A guide for the nipple hole drill is provided. You can order the right size drill and tap for the 1/4 x 28 nipple. Not complicated if you follow instructions. The easiest solution is if you can find an original drop-in TC flint breeched barrel and lock but therein lies the hard part. Good luck with your project. A good suggestion posted earlier is to get a TC flint "hawken" in .50 or .54 caliber.

 

[SDSmlf]

Oh dear! Have you got your feelings hurt. Too bad. And yes I like being correct, especially when someone ask for help.

And just so you know neither lock has a notch for the drum. Neither TC or Investarms uses a drum set up. So no notch in the lock plate.

Interesting observation. It was back in the 1970s when my uncle purchased a T/C Hawken flintlock for me that included a percussion conversion kit that included a drum and a lock with a radius notch in it for the drum. Remember it as a big deal as it was my birthday. It had T/C packaging and labels. May have come from their custom shop, but it was in factory T/C packaging. Seem to recall at least three or four more on the rack. Got to believe there were more. The one I owned moved on because of life. You know, college, marriage, house etc. I wish I had kept it.

The bolster has a groove on the bottom that fits over the top of the lock plate. I guess you didn't know that.

Agree, the bolsters had notches in them for the lock plate, however, the drums, whether made by T/C, CVA, Traditions, Pedersoli and every other contemporary manufacturer’s lockplate used with a drum that I have seen had a notch in the lock plate, not the drum. The point I believe @bubba.50 was attempting to make, love or hate him.

Please correct me if I am not correct. Pretty sure my wife will agree with you.

 

[burlesontom]

Agree, the bolsters had notches in them for the lock plate, however, the drums, whether made by T/C, CVA, Traditions, Pedersoli and every other contemporary manufacturer’s lockplate used with a drum that I have seen had a notch in the lock plate, not the drum. The point I believe @bubba.50 was attempting to make, love or hate him.

Thanks. Yes I know how they were configured. Just trying to help the OP get his gun up and running. I am glad he finally cleared up which gun he is working on. A T/C and not an invest arms. My bud has a .45 Investarms he bought a Green Mountain 32 caliber barrel for. The barrel was made for a TC and dropped into the Investarms gun with just a little bit of fitting. I am on the Notify Me list at TOW for a .54 caliber Green Mountain RB barrel to go on one of my Investarms rifles. I have about given up on ever getting it.

Thats why I bought a .50 caliber barrel off Ebay that has a rough bore. Its probably shootable and may surprise me. But I have my heart set on a slow twist 54 barrel so will send it off to Mr. Hoyt to be bored and rifled. Thats one of the reasons I suggested early on to the OP to just look and see if he could find a ready to go used barrel for his gun.

It sounds like he is really set on converting the barrel he has and I wish him all the luck doing so. He has plenty of advise and tips so should be able to do the conversion.

 

[bubba.50]

Interesting observation. It was back in the 1970s when my uncle purchased a T/C Hawken flintlock for me that included a percussion conversion kit that included a drum and a lock with a radius notch in it for the drum. Remember it as a big deal as it was my birthday. It had T/C packaging and labels. May have come from their custom shop, but it was in factory T/C packaging. Seem to recall at least three or four more on the rack. Got to believe there were more. The one I owned moved on because of life. You know, college, marriage, house etc. I wish I had kept it.

Agree, the bolsters had notches in them for the lock plate, however, the drums, whether made by T/C, CVA, Traditions, Pedersoli and every other contemporary manufacturer’s lockplate used with a drum that I have seen had a notch in the lock plate, not the drum. The point I believe @bubba.50 was attempting to make, love or hate him.

Please correct me if I am not correct. Pretty sure my wife will agree with you.

Yeah, it's funny how a concept so simple can go right over some people's heads. I've owned TC guns since 1974 and know damn well they have the ledge under the bolster that fits over the lock-plate. I've also known since the '70's they had the conversion kits with a drum that replaces the vent liner and a lock that had the cut-out for said drum. And what took so long for some people to understand is that this is the concept the OP was aiming for and that was what I was trying to explain to him amid all the confusion from other parties who know about half of what they think they do.

 

[Scota@4570]

If he has to ask then making the flint barrel into an interchangeable barrel for his percussion gun is not possible for him.

IF you asked someone like me, then it is possible to machine patent breech plug from bar stock. The OP does not appear to have the tools or knowledge to do that. Heck, even pulling the flint plug without damaging the barrel required specialized tools. Paying some to convert it is not practical. Parts do do so are not available and would require specialized tools and knowledge if they were.

A drum is not the answer. That would require altering the lock thus making it useless for the old barrel.

The best answer so far is to get a flint lock to go with the flint barrel. OR, sell the flint barrel and find a proper percussion barrel.