Converting reproduction to Percussion

[burlesontom]

A drum is not the answer. That would require altering the lock thus making it useless for the old barrel.

The best answer so far is to get a flint lock to go with the flint barrel. OR, sell the flint barrel and find a proper percussion barrel.

Thank you. Thats what I suggested way back in post #8. I bought a used Investarms barrel off ebay for a little over one hundred dollars. The bore is a little rough. I have seen barrels with perfect bores sell for $150-$175 with the underlug, thimbles and sights plus the nipple if you keep your eye out and check there every day.

It seems that there are a lot of sellers getting these guns and parting them out for more money than they can get for the complete gun.

 

[bubba.50]

If he has to ask then making the flint barrel into an interchangeable barrel for his percussion gun is not possible for him.

IF you asked someone like me, then it is possible to machine patent breech plug from bar stock. The OP does not appear to have the tools or knowledge to do that. Heck, even pulling the flint plug without damaging the barrel required specialized tools. Paying some to convert it is not practical. Parts do do so are not available and would require specialized tools and knowledge if they were.

A drum is not the answer. That would require altering the lock thus making it useless for the old barrel.

The best answer so far is to get a flint lock to go with the flint barrel. OR, sell the flint barrel and find a proper percussion barrel.

Respectfully disagree. the notch to accommodate the drum that would not hurt or affect the function of the lock at all. It would just duplicate what TC did with their conversion kit. Biggest drawback is the notch filed/ground for drum clearance would likely be at least partially visible when he has the original barrel in the stock.

 

[SDSmlf]

Thank you. Thats what I suggested way back in post #8. I bought a used Investarms barrel off ebay for a little over one hundred dollars. The bore is a little rough. I have seen barrels with perfect bores sell for $150-$175 with the underlug, thimbles and sights plus the nipple if you keep your eye out and check there every day.

It seems that there are a lot of sellers getting these guns and parting them out for more money than they can get for the complete gun.

It appears the OP wants to do a conversion from flint to percussion, not buy a barrel from eBay or wherever or go for the most economical solution. They seem to have made that clear with lucid statements. Truth be told, while many in this game are penny pinching miser types, this isn’t a money maker for most building or those wanting to modify contemporary guns. Not much room to argue the point. Personally, helping someone accomplish what they want to do is more rewarding than insisting they go down a different path as long as it is feasible.

 

[SDSmlf]

A drum is not the answer. That would require altering the lock thus making it useless for the old barrel.

Curious how a notch in the lock plate makes it useless with the old barrel? Ugly, maybe, but useless? Notch will not stop the hammer from striking a percussion cap sitting on the original barrel’s nipple.

 

[Scota@4570]

A notch under the bolster would look makeshift and ugly with the original barrel. I would not want a half moon cut out on my lock. Keep in mind that a half circle cut out for a drum will not work with a hooked breech. IT needs to be relieved on the front of the half circle cut on the lock plate so the barrel can be rotated up and out. That leaves a gap when assembled.

The aesthetics of a gun matter to me, others don't care.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Interesting observation. It was back in the 1970s when my uncle purchased a T/C Hawken flintlock for me that included a percussion conversion kit that included a drum and a lock with a radius notch in it for the drum. Remember it as a big deal as it was my birthday. It had T/C packaging and labels. May have come from their custom shop, but it was in factory T/C packaging. Seem to recall at least three or four more on the rack. Got to believe there were more. The one I owned moved on because of life. You know, college, marriage, house etc. I wish I had kept it.

Agree, the bolsters had notches in them for the lock plate, however, the drums, whether made by T/C, CVA, Traditions, Pedersoli and every other contemporary manufacturer’s lockplate used with a drum that I have seen had a notch in the lock plate, not the drum. The point I believe @bubba.50 was attempting to make, love or hate him.

Please correct me if I am not correct. Pretty sure my wife will agree with you.

Never saw a TC made gun with a drum.

Most production guns with bolsters have a slot to fit over the lock. Not all guns with bolsters however have such slots. On some the lock was cut out. 1853 Enfield for instance. Zouave, etc.

 

[bubba.50]

Don't know why the over thinkers are trying so hard to complicate such a simple project. All the OP wants to do is duplicate the EXACT SAME THING Thompson Center did with their flint to percussion conversion kit, the EXACT SAME THING Dixie Gun Works did with their flint to percussion kit for the Tennessee Mountain Rifle, the EXACT SAME THING every other gunmaker that's ever offered conversion kits has done. And yes, with the original barrel mounted there will be a small bit of the cutout for the drum showing. Big whoopin' deal!

 

[Scota@4570]

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/t-c-lock-conversion-flint-to-percussion.119471/
Not everything TC did was well thought out. I would seriously question using TC's 1/4-28 threads on a drum. When I converted my flint lock TC to caplock, I bought a TC hammer and made the drum. I I used 3/8 threads. 5/16 is also common. IF you use 1/4" threads and put a 1/8" hole down the middle you are getting pretty thin. There is a good chance it will eventually break off when fired. IT will then be shot to the right creating a dangerous situation to the guy standing to the shooter's right.

 

[bubba.50]

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/t-c-lock-conversion-flint-to-percussion.119471/
Not everything TC did was well thought out. I would seriously question using TC's 1/4-28 threads on a drum. When I converted my flint lock TC to caplock, I bought a TC hammer and made the drum. I I used 3/8 threads. 5/16 is also common. IF you use 1/4" threads and put a 1/8" hole down the middle you are getting pretty thin. There is a good chance it will eventually break off when fired. IT will then be shot to the right creating a dangerous situation to the guy standing to the shooter's right.

Get out your reading comprehension glasses and you'll see it's already been pretty well determined he's going to have to go with an over-sized drum.

And in all the years I've been fooling with these things, I've never heard of anyone being maimed or killed by an errant TC drum.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Hi and thanks for letting me join this group.

I’m a reproduction BP rifle user and shoot frequently. For some time I’ve wondered if I could take my 54 cal Hawken and replace the barrel with a 50 cal.

As luck would have it I stumbled onto an inexpensive 50 barrel that fits my 54 stock perfectly. Now the problem looking for a solution…it is a flint lock barrel w/o the lock set. An old timer friend suggested looking for a “percussion conversion
bolster”. I’m finding that flint lock to percussion came in many fashions and flavors. Going by the photo of the 54 and 50 barrels, would anyone have a recommendation on how to proceed?

View attachment 168217

This sounds like the OP has an Investarms pair of barrels. By far the easiest solution is to get an Investarms flint lock, but wait, he wants to convert the flintlock barrel to percussion while only keeping one lock. The other choice is to remove the flint touch hole to determine the threads of the touch hole liner. Then one needs a blank drum to replace the touch hole liner. I would suggest that the OP get an Investarms percussion lock to modify to fit the drum. See @SDSmlf's post #17 for the most logicalsolution.

 

[Scota@4570]

Sometimes a $60 used barrel is a can of worms. It is kind of like buying a gun because you were given 3-boxes of cartridges that you do not have a gun for currently.

Apparently I am not going to persuade anyone with my experience, skills and knowledge here.

Take note, Track does not sell any powder drums with 1/4" threads. They are 5/16" and larger. It is a safety issue. This is probably why the TC conversion drums are little known and rare. I'd bet they had some break and blow off the gun. They would have been discontinued when the flaw was discovered. I speculate....

I will say that a powder drum is a second rate way to make a cap lock. That come from 30+ years as a professional doing forensic firearms work, including accidents and failure investigations. It also includes 40 years of gunsmithing.

 

[bubba.50]

Sometimes a $60 used barrel is a can of worms. It is kind of like buying a gun because you were given 3-boxes of cartridges that you do not have a gun for currently.

Apparently I am not going to persuade anyone with my experience, skills and knowledge here.

Take note, Track does not sell any powder drums with 1/4" threads. They are 5/16" and larger. It is a safety issue. This is probably why the TC conversion drums are little known and rare. I'd bet they had some break and blow off the gun. They would have been discontinued when the flaw was discovered. I speculate....

I will say that a powder drum is a second rate way to make a cap lock. That come from 30+ years as a professional doing forensic firearms work, including accidents and failure investigations. It also includes 40 years of gunsmithing.

Sometimes a 300 dollar barrel is a can of worms(Green Mountain breechplugs ring a bell?). Sometimes a 600 dollar gun is a can of worms(Lyman recall anyone?)

And if a powder drum is such a poor way to make a caplock gun, shouldn't someone alert CVA, Traditions, Pedersoli, etc, etc, etc?

 

[Scota@4570]

Again, not the whole story. CVA uses a long drum that threads into a chambered breech plug. The plug nose is then machined as part of the powder chamber, It is not the same as a drum that threads into the side of the barrel with a few threads. You typically this have a few full threads in a leaded steel barrel wall The tap and drill are often done free hand, making a poor loose job. Typical drums as done by a hobbyist are sometimes sketchy.

In this case I would definitely bring the threads in the patent breech up to a larger size, maybe even 3/8 NF. I would drill and tap on the milling machine to keep it all straight a well fitted.

I have to go do something more worthwhile than arguing here. Time to test fire and sight in. I just finished this from a pile of very rough castings and a even rougher precarve stock.