I have been thinking on purchasing another muzzleloader, I have a TC Hawkens but am looking at CVA traditional muzzleloaders. Are they any that I should steer away from. Or are they a reliable muzzleloader. I am not in a hurry to purchase one since I already own a TC Hawkens. Just trying to do my homework without a failing grade and regretting it later.
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CONNECTICUT VALLEY ARMS (CVA)
- Thread starter George C
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CVA produced and sold a lot of guns over a 20 year period....
Some are fantastic....some were junk.
The Hawkens, Kentuckys, Pennsylvania, squirrel, and Mountain rifles were all decent....(off the top of my head)....
Some are fantastic....some were junk.
The Hawkens, Kentuckys, Pennsylvania, squirrel, and Mountain rifles were all decent....(off the top of my head)....
A quick review, if the ramrod is junk, so is the gun!
There were a few, I repeat "a few" good CVA guns, but I mean a few.
Many had bad locks, bad wood, but mostly many had good barrels.
Many were inlet with a chain saw.
So, take a lot of pictures, show them to us, and sit back and watch the show.
Fred
There were a few, I repeat "a few" good CVA guns, but I mean a few.
Many had bad locks, bad wood, but mostly many had good barrels.
Many were inlet with a chain saw.
So, take a lot of pictures, show them to us, and sit back and watch the show.
Fred
Have had excellent luck with them myself. :hmm:
Stlnifr said:
If you are in no hurry, why not consider a nice semi-custom or custom...even if gently used? Save some more money in the time you are reviewing guns and getting an idea of their used worth. Or, if you are not that budget concerned, have one made for you.
The CVA rifles made back in the 1970's had good barrels but poor locks.
The tumbler inside the locks did not have a bridle to support the end of the tumbler and with only the hole thru the lockplate to keep the tumbler aligned a little bit of wear could cause the tumbler and the hammer to become misaligned.
Towards the end of the 1980's, this fault was corrected and a bridle was added to support the tumbler.
Percussion locks of this design are OK.
Flintlocks during the same 1970's also had the bridle problem and one can add the 1980's to the locks to be avoided when the frizzen and frizzen spring problems are added to the list.
The frizzens on these old CVA's were often poorly heat treated and getting them to throw sparks could be a problem.
The frizzen springs on these older CVA's were often too stiff.
In the 1990's, CVA (and Ardesa in Spain who makes these CVA guns) got their act together and improved things but generally speaking the wood and craftsmanship leave a lot to be desired.
The fact that many people who shoot muzzleloaders know this keeps the prices down at the bottom range.
This can be good if you buy one of the later guns at a low price but, if you do and then upgrade the lock with a Davis replacement you will have a gun with a good lock and barrel but when you try to sell it you won't get all of the money you've invested in the gun back.
When CVA decided to stop importing side lock guns, Traditions took over the job of importing the same guns.
That makes buying a Traditions a bit less risky because they have the better locks on them but because they look the same as the guns imported by CVA, they still won't command a high price if you want to resell one of them.
IMO, the bottom line is, if you find an old CVA rifle at a low price at a garage sale, if the barrel isn't rusted and the price is $100 or less, buy it.
If someone wants something like $200 for one, save your money for something better.
The tumbler inside the locks did not have a bridle to support the end of the tumbler and with only the hole thru the lockplate to keep the tumbler aligned a little bit of wear could cause the tumbler and the hammer to become misaligned.
Towards the end of the 1980's, this fault was corrected and a bridle was added to support the tumbler.
Percussion locks of this design are OK.
Flintlocks during the same 1970's also had the bridle problem and one can add the 1980's to the locks to be avoided when the frizzen and frizzen spring problems are added to the list.
The frizzens on these old CVA's were often poorly heat treated and getting them to throw sparks could be a problem.
The frizzen springs on these older CVA's were often too stiff.
In the 1990's, CVA (and Ardesa in Spain who makes these CVA guns) got their act together and improved things but generally speaking the wood and craftsmanship leave a lot to be desired.
The fact that many people who shoot muzzleloaders know this keeps the prices down at the bottom range.
This can be good if you buy one of the later guns at a low price but, if you do and then upgrade the lock with a Davis replacement you will have a gun with a good lock and barrel but when you try to sell it you won't get all of the money you've invested in the gun back.
When CVA decided to stop importing side lock guns, Traditions took over the job of importing the same guns.
That makes buying a Traditions a bit less risky because they have the better locks on them but because they look the same as the guns imported by CVA, they still won't command a high price if you want to resell one of them.
IMO, the bottom line is, if you find an old CVA rifle at a low price at a garage sale, if the barrel isn't rusted and the price is $100 or less, buy it.
If someone wants something like $200 for one, save your money for something better.
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There is a wide array of muzzleloaders out there.
However, the typical shiny brass hawkens T/C and CVA make appear to be similar.
Why not expand out a bit with something a bit more different than the hawken copies, like a lyman GPR, a pedersoli fullstock, or a old replica military musket. Once you buy a custom built, you'll never turn back......
CVA's can be fine, but be prepared to put some work to make them ok and maybe more money than you can resell them for too. trigger work is a likely task. Also, CVA do not have a high respect and in many cases their care and handling of CVA guns show that attitude.
IF you want a real affordable gun that is in serviceable condition out of the box, look for investarms or cabela's hawkens. They're basically lyman knockoff's. I have bought 3 flintlock hawkens over the years as starter guns for new shooters. I paid $175 to $275 for them in used, but great shape. They all fired reliably and shot well.
However, the typical shiny brass hawkens T/C and CVA make appear to be similar.
Why not expand out a bit with something a bit more different than the hawken copies, like a lyman GPR, a pedersoli fullstock, or a old replica military musket. Once you buy a custom built, you'll never turn back......
CVA's can be fine, but be prepared to put some work to make them ok and maybe more money than you can resell them for too. trigger work is a likely task. Also, CVA do not have a high respect and in many cases their care and handling of CVA guns show that attitude.
IF you want a real affordable gun that is in serviceable condition out of the box, look for investarms or cabela's hawkens. They're basically lyman knockoff's. I have bought 3 flintlock hawkens over the years as starter guns for new shooters. I paid $175 to $275 for them in used, but great shape. They all fired reliably and shot well.
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Old Ford said:
They were not "inlet with a chainsaw".. :shake:
I have owned CVAs from all 3 decades of their existence...including early Traditions...
Never had any wood issues...and only two lock issues...A weak spring, and a crappy early 80's flintlock.....Aside from that, they have been great.
Sure their ramrods were junk....But I don't judge a gun by its ramrod....That's like judging a car by the tires.....
Two words best describe many CVAs.....
Functional.
Accurate.
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I get mixed reviews so it is a little hard to come to a decent conclusion. But I am leaning that they would be OK. Sooner or later I will purchase another muzzle-loader I just doing my homework. The wood does not bother me I can handle that, working parts are my main interest and how complicated it would be to fix what may malfunction.
I own quite a few CVAs and Traditions and they all work fine for me. Yes they are the bottom of the barrel as far as Mls go and I am not saying that to put them down. There are allot of people out there, myself included that may not have ever gotten into muzzle loading if it weren't for the economy priced CVAs and others out there. Many companies in the beginning bought the same import guns and put their name on them. They basically like the difference between a Chevy or a Ford and a Mercedes. Yes it's nice to have a high end car but both will get you where you want to go.
So what it comes down to, try to buy a newer one over one of the early ones, avoid the older flint locks and don't pay allot for it.
So what it comes down to, try to buy a newer one over one of the early ones, avoid the older flint locks and don't pay allot for it.
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You do realize that CVA stopped making traditional muzzleloaders in the early 90's?
A CVA Hawken will be very close in appearance and performance to your T/C Hawken.
I would prefer the one piece stock to the two piece stock.
You need to be aware of the chambered breech practice of the CVA/Traditions guns. Especially in the case of the fixed breech guns, you need to be thorough in the cleaning of the chamber. Since it is smaller that the bore, the reduced diameter chamber needs to be cleaned with a smaller caliber jag or brush wrapped in a cleaning patch.
Are they okay for use? Safe to shoot? Yes. Functionally accurate on target? Probably yes. Will they appreciate in vale over time? Probably not. Ultimately the selection is up to you.
I would prefer the one piece stock to the two piece stock.
You need to be aware of the chambered breech practice of the CVA/Traditions guns. Especially in the case of the fixed breech guns, you need to be thorough in the cleaning of the chamber. Since it is smaller that the bore, the reduced diameter chamber needs to be cleaned with a smaller caliber jag or brush wrapped in a cleaning patch.
Are they okay for use? Safe to shoot? Yes. Functionally accurate on target? Probably yes. Will they appreciate in vale over time? Probably not. Ultimately the selection is up to you.
:haha: :wink:Stlnifr said:
Don't worry too much about negative reviews.
If you find a CVA with a good bore for a good price go ahead and and grab it.
The barrels are good shooters, the locks and triggers can be tuned if your the least bit handy.
We can walk you through any troubles you might find with it
A good price is anywhere around 100-200 depending on model and condition. That's beats 400-600 for a T/C now-a-days
zimmerstutzen
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For reliability of ignition and accuracy, a CVA Mountain rifle flintlock will beat a TC flintlock hand down. TC made a nicely finished gun on which the flintlocks were piles o manure. TC made a gun with a life time warranty that was needed for a reason and now they reneged on all those warranties.
The fit and finish on my first TC was so bad the barrel key could not be inserted. The barrel channel was cut wrong. Two stocks later, I had a nonsparking flint frizzen that had all the case hardening scraped off.
The fit and finish on my first TC was so bad the barrel key could not be inserted. The barrel channel was cut wrong. Two stocks later, I had a nonsparking flint frizzen that had all the case hardening scraped off.
Danny Ross
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Something to think about is Pawn Shops with your looking. A lot of times you can find some good buys there. If you can find one of the Cabela's sidelocks those would be worth a look at. Also look at Lyman rifles in your looking. Prices maybe a little more depending, they have different models and I have not heard anyone complain much about them on here as a whole. Not trying to change your mind but to give you something else to look at since you are looking to add to your collection. DANNY
Oop's, your comparing a simple visual variable without considering other configurations of each barrel,,
So No, length alone does not affect accuracy. You need to consider caliber and twist rate along with length for each barrel in question.
There is enough experience here on the forum to dissect the +/- characteristics of any individual CVA or Tradtions barrel you may find.
So No, length alone does not affect accuracy. You need to consider caliber and twist rate along with length for each barrel in question.
There is enough experience here on the forum to dissect the +/- characteristics of any individual CVA or Tradtions barrel you may find.
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You should really pick a specific model for us to dissect.....otherwise its like comparing all Chevy trucks ever made to other trucks.
If you run across a CVA Mountain rifle in good shape at a good price, snatch it up. Most here will agree, it's probably the best gun CVA every sold.
