Conicals

[azmntman]

I need that!

 

[satx78247]

Inasmuch as Richard's G-G-Grandfather brought that double rifle home from WWI (It was an antique, when COL Mayes bought it in the UK.), I figure that it will NEVER leave his family. = It is already willed to his 2YO grandson, to be delivered on John Henry's 25th birthday.

Note: "The Colonel Mayes" weighs about 19# & it "will back you up" when loaded for elephant or other dangerous game. = "BIG GUNS" in the Carolinas are generally referred to by the first person that owned them.

Addenda: IF you want a REALLY big gun, a member of pidgeonwatch.co has (or had, as it may have sold) a SxS TWO-BORE for sale. = The current owner said that firing that rifle is "challenging".
(Sounds like the understatement of the week, as I have fired "The Colonel Mayes".)

yours, satx

 

[cynthialee]

A 2 bore rifle?!
Might as well call it a man portable Amusette.

 

[satx78247]

Fyi, to keep from "getting yelled at" for being "off-topic", I've moved the discussion of BIG GUNS to a new thread in "percussion rifles".
(My further comments will be there.)

yours, satx

 

[wicket]

You can find J. Henry Ferguson's 1858 patent #24548 for combustible paper cartridges online through the U.S. Patent office site, he used potassium nitrate and sulfuric acid, then water-proofed them with shellac.

 

[nkbj]

Are the chambers today representative of what the cartridges of yesteryear were being stuck in?

 

[Wes/Tex]

They're relatively close. The current guns have slightly less diameter due to modern black powder cartridges being generally loaded with inside lubed slugs rather than the outside lubed slugs used in the conversions that still had the normal chamber sizes of percussion revolvers they'd been converted from. Loading heeled slugs was a messy deal and the bullets tended to collect dust, dirt and lint due to the external lube.

 

[rodwha]

I didn't have any problems with ignition even when I tried going several cylinders without cleaning out the shards that I found in some of the chambers.

I used Rem #10 caps and American Spirits papers.

Here's some old videos I made showing my making of the cartridges:
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showpost.php?post/1298714/

Send me a PM with your address and I'll send you some papers to try out.

 

[nkbj]

They're relatively close. The current guns have slightly less diameter due to modern black powder cartridges being generally loaded with inside lubed slugs rather than the outside lubed slugs used in the conversions that still had the normal chamber sizes of percussion revolvers they'd been converted from. Loading heeled slugs was a messy deal and the bullets tended to collect dust, dirt and lint due to the external lube.

Paper cartridges as were being discussed: Are the chambers they are being loaded in today representative of the chambers back then?

 

[Wes/Tex]

Sorry...saw "cartridges" and my mind slipped. The originals were about like the Colt 2nd generation, running about .454"ish while current revolvers usually run .446" to .452", depending on maker. Of late, the majority seem to be holding much closer to the .452" range than in years past. Sorry about the confusion in the former post.

 

[nkbj]

I was just wondering, like were chambers the same dimensionally as the ones we run across these days. Were the originals tapered or anything? I've seen originals but I've never inspected one. Was wondering was all.

 

[Zonie]

The modern replicas chambers are very close to the originals.

Many of the tapered cartridges were meant to be loaded into the chambers and when they were crushed during the ramming of the ball home, they broke releasing their powder.

There were also a few pistols made with tapered chambers but they were made for some metallic tapered cartridges that we don't discuss here.

 

[crockett]

This is just heresay but I think I remember reading that chambers varied somewhat in diameter. The other issue is the cartridges were loaded into whatever you were issued, A Colt, Remington, Whitney, Starr, etc.
So...maybe a safety issue? I've often wondered about that. No grease over the ends of the conicals/chambers and no wad between powder and conical (Although one early colt style had a thin cork wad). I've never heard of a chain firings but then again most modern day shooters don't shoot many combustible cartridges.
Which brings up a point. You can make small, re-useable paper tubes to hold powder charges and keep them, lubed wads, round balls, etc in an Altoid can. No worry about the hazards of using combustible ammo;so, for me at least the use of combustible ammo is "a bonding experience" with the past. Do it a couple of times to understand how it all worked and then be done with it. For carrying back up ammo in the field the afore mentioned set up in the altoid can is far better.

 

[wicket]

I tend to agree with Crockett. There just doesn't appear to be a practical way for the average modern blackpowder shooter to produce a combustible cartridge with the same characteristics as what was available 150 years ago.
Light-weight paper perhaps treated with potassium nitrate and carefully formed to provide a cartridge with minimum and uniform wall thickness then lightly glued to a heeled lubricated conical appears to be the most practical approach to recreating the experience.
Magician's flash paper seems interesting, but it's nitrocellulose, not nitrate impregnated cellulose, and depending on how carefully it was manufactured, can ignite spontaneously from residual acid content.
Thing i wonder about cartridges made of nitrocellulose back in the day was whether they increased the power of the cartridge beyond what was provided by the gunpowder. Maybe that's how Wild Bill put the bullet from a Colt navy straight through Davis Tutt at 75 yards!