colt patersons on the southern plains

Discussion in 'The Plains' started by whiskey, Mar 28, 2019.

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  1. Mar 28, 2019 #1

    whiskey

    whiskey

    whiskey

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    I am trying to find references to colt patersons on the southern plains/santa fe trail around the mid 1840s. Any have any sources on that?
     
  2. Mar 28, 2019 #2

    davidmc62

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    I cant say for the Santa Fe Trail area. But The Republic of Texas bought Paterson rifles, shotguns and revolvers for the Texas Navy in 1839 I believe. When the Navy was disbanded in 1843, Texas Ranger Captain Jack C. Hays acquired some of the surplus revolvers from the defunct Texas Navy to arm his company of Rangers. Hays and his men put them to good use against the Comanche Indians in Texas. The Paterson revolver may have been of small caliber, and fragile, but the increased firepower it provided was enough to give Rangers the upper hand in many decisive fights against the Comanches in the 1840's.
     
  3. Mar 28, 2019 #3

    tenngun

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    Kit Carson had a Patterson revolver in 1839. However sales for colts between ‘36 and ‘48 were dismal.
    It’s certainly in the time frame and lots of colts were carried th California for the gold rush. 1840? New toy on the block, 1850? Much more common.
     
  4. Mar 28, 2019 #4

    whiskey

    whiskey

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    do you have a source for kit having a paterson
     
  5. Mar 28, 2019 #5

    whiskey

    whiskey

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    in Susan Maggofin's 1846 journal when traveling on santa fe trail she mentions them having some of colts 6 shot revolvers. During the editing for publication years later, that may have been a mistaken edit. The 6 shot colt walker was not available in summer of 46. I was wondering if they might have been patersons.
     
  6. Mar 28, 2019 #6

    tenngun

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    Carson and several trappers rode to the relief of santafe traders , I think besieged by commache. I don’t have the biography of him any more. They were proud of how well the ‘5 shooters’ worked.
     
  7. Mar 31, 2019 #7

    BlackHillsBob

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    as for me, i think the paterson colt is the most beautiful revolver ever made. in a long search i found a couple that were converted into a 38 or somthing like that rim fire. if uberti ever comes out with one like that i would buy it in a short minute. thanks for talking about paterson colts.
     
  8. Nov 26, 2019 #8

    Birdwatcher

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    Stephen Moore’s “Savage Frontier” series contain a wealth of Texas historical trivia. Somewhere I read that the going rate for a Patterson around 1840 in Texas was around $200, an astronomical sum.

    IIRC Moore places the first uses of the Paterson around San Antonio around 1840. In that year, during the Council House Fight in San Antonio, Moore relates an account of Texas Officer Lysander Wells’ Paterson locking up because he had driven the wedge too tight, suggesting he had recently obtained the revolver.

    That same year Moore relates that a prominent and presumably well-to-do Tejano was armed with a Paterson in an action against the Comanche Chief Isomania.

    Also in 1840, John L Moore’s second expedition against the Comanches. An estimate 180 Comanches killed at their camp on the Colorado, one of the major bloodlettings of the West, strangely forgotten today.

    Everyone focuses on Moore’s 1839 debacle against a Comanche camp on the San Saba. Turns out Moore learned from his mistakes and launched a second strike the following winter, this time observing the suggestions of his Lipan guides to the letter.

    The result was a well-executed dawn attack on the unsuspecting camp. IIRC Moore had 80 men in his party, one of whom possessed a Paterson revolving carbine, the rest presumably armed with a variety of flintlock and caplock rifles.
     
  9. Dec 18, 2019 #9

    Grumpa

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    If you ever get to Paterson, New Jersey, there is a museum in the original factory that has A LOT of Paterson revolvers on display, with all the accoutrements.

    Richard/Grumpa
     
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  10. Jan 3, 2020 #10

    snubnose57

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    I am reading a book titled " My Sixty Years on the Plains" by William Thomas Hamilton.
    He was a mountain man trapping with Bill Williams. While this book is not about the southern plains,
    he talks about the trappers he was with having Colt revolvers . One chapter gives the year as 1843,
    And he talks about the Colts in previous chapters. All this is new to me, having thought Pattersons were
    fairly rare out west at that time.
     
  11. Jan 3, 2020 #11

    tenngun

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    There weren’t that many mountain men west. If every mountain man had bought one they wouldn’t have kept the company afloat.
    Some folks grab the latest craze and some look askance at it. Pepper boxes and coulters revolver were around too.
    Pistols were found all over the west, but never in the numbers they would as revolvers became more popular. So we can see several men having them in late ‘30s early ‘40s and still be few and far between.
     
  12. Jan 10, 2020 #12

    BillinOregon

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    Birdwatcher, thanks for your post. Always look forward to your contributions.
     
  13. Jan 14, 2020 #13

    Einsiedler

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    Rereading my old copy of Josiah Greggs monumental "The Commerce of the Prairies”. Pg 178 of my book references “ Then my brother and myself were each provided with one of Colt’s repeating rifles and a pair of pistols of the same so that we could, if necessary, carry thirty-six ready loaded shots apiece; which alone constituted a capacity of defense rarely matched even on the prairies."

    This was the Spring Of 1839 on their trip to trade in Chihuahua via Santa Fe. French had all gulf ports blockaded. I believe (don’t laugh) this was during the "Pastry" war.

    This is when they followed the Arkansas river starting at Van Buren, to the Canadian thru modern Oklahoma, across the Texas panhandle to pick up the Santa Fe trail.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2020
  14. Jan 14, 2020 #14

    Zonie

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    If anyone was wondering, the Paterson revolvers were 5 shot pistols and Colts revolving rifles usually had an 8 shot cylinder. :)
     
  15. Jan 14, 2020 #15

    Einsiedler

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    In wondered if anyone was gonna question that! And some 10 shot!
    Figgered it was too early for them to have the big bore 1839 carbines.
     
  16. Jan 15, 2020 #16

    Einsiedler

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    There is another reference to his demonstrating his Colt’s repeating pistol to an Comanche chief ( they were trading with his band) somewhere in the vicinity of the 100th Meridian after crossing into " Mexican” territory. Gregg unholstered and showed the chief the gun then fired several shots in rapid succession. He mentioned the chief caught on to his demonstration and took his bow and shot just as many arrows in just as many seconds!

    I recently rekindled my interest in the Santa Fe trail and have been reading and re-reading what I can. If the western historians here have not read "The Commerce of the Prairies”. I strongly recommend it. Along with Lewis Garrard’s old classis "Wah-to-yah and the Taos Trail". Two good starting points.
     
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  17. Jan 18, 2020 #17

    Einsiedler

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    I thought I would mention another of Mr. Greggs firearms to the conversation.

    Apparently Mr. Gregg must have been what we might refer to as a gun nut today. Kinda like most of us here. In a good way. On the return trip to missouri in the Spring of 1840 he does not mention his Colt firearms again ,,,, but! He does mention another very interesting firearm in his possession and use.

    What is now known as a Cochran turret gun. A 9 shot repeating rifle. With Which he did manage to kill a bison! (And wound several others).
     

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