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Discussion in 'Forum Announcements & Support' started by Spence10, Nov 29, 2018.

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  1. Nov 29, 2018 #1

    Spence10

    Spence10

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    Zonie closed the dugout canoe thread in the Accoutrements forum. How about moving it, instead, say to the General Reenacting Discussion forum?

    Spence
     
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  2. Nov 29, 2018 #2

    Black Hand

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    I'm starting to become concerned - threads get closed even though the rules haven't been violated. I understand this is a private forum, but when does it stop being oversight and become censorship...?
     
  3. Nov 29, 2018 #3

    Spence10

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    I've ben censored. Don't know if it was the moderators or the software, but it was obvious and definite. I got steamed in a recent thread and wrote, "Haters!? What the (**&%$%$457 are you people thinking?" When I posted it, the phrase was changed to "Haters!? I don't think so." Sweet, but not what I wanted to say. Who changed it? I wasn't told.

    Spence
     
  4. Nov 29, 2018 #4

    Zonie

    Zonie

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    Excellent idea.
    The two canoe posts that were in the accouterments forum have been reopened and moved to the General Reenacting discussion area.

    As for editing of posts and censoring things on the forum without being notified, that is one of the things you people signed up for when you joined.
    Any moderator or administrator can change your posts or delete them at any time without your permission.

    If I or one of the other administrators or moderators see something that is overly offensive or attacks other members it is likely to get changed or deleted.

    I've done it and I know Stumpkiller has done it.
    I've even gone so far as to correct spelling errors, add periods and commas when I see problems and I have the time. Don't count on me doing it every time.
    I sure would hate to see a "Somebody fixed the misspelled words in FreddieHotshots post but they didn't fix the stuffff I Messsed up in mine." :eek::D
     
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  5. Nov 29, 2018 #5

    Spence10

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    Well, it gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling to know you are up there looking after me, Just Jim. Not exactly Big Brother, sort of Big Grandmother.

    Spence
     
  6. Nov 29, 2018 #6

    hawkeye2

    hawkeye2

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    Being a moderator can be a very thankless job and extremely time consuming too. I know that I would not have the patience to deal with all the issues. The best I can do is to offer a very big thank you to Zonie and Stumpkiller. :thumbs up:

    Spence I can understand you getting a little steamed sometimes. I do get irritated at times and need to take a time out to chill before I reply (sometimes I don't). That's the reason I don't have a premium membership because I know exactly what would happen if I got into some of the discussions there. I ran a steel fabrication shop for years (sensitivy training was not offered) and while that doesn't qualify me to talk like a sailor I can come awfully close. I hope none of you are around when I dress someone down. :)
     
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  7. Nov 29, 2018 #7

    Spence10

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    I guess one of my problems is not always being able to see the other fellow's point of view. For instance, given the choice between "Don't let the haters get you down" directed at those on the board who try to be historically correct and my "What the *%&^%$ are you people thinking?!" in response to that comment, I would have censored the hater comment. That seems like a fairly direct personal attack directed at a big bunch of members, and over the top, to me, but I'm not the decider in chief.

    I have been, in the past. I ran a forum for a few years, did all the moderating, myself, so I know the problems moderators face. Remaining neutral was the hardest part, for me, and it apparently is for others.

    Spence
     
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  8. Nov 29, 2018 #8

    Black Hand

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    And yet, this is essential for a moderator. Favoring (or giving the appearance of favoring) a point of view, person or group (by words or actions) is noticed...
     
  9. Nov 30, 2018 #9

    Angie

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    Favoring may or may not be happening. Many times both sides think you are favoring the other side.
    The mods here are good, and thankfully most of this membership behaves outstandingly. At least most of the time. (We all have a bad day or an issue that just "gets" to us.)
     
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  10. Nov 30, 2018 #10

    Black Hand

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    In these particular cases and on several occasions, the opinions expressed were definitely biased and decidedly not neutral - which I found disturbing. As you can tell, I don't mind or even care if people disagree with me, but if your job is to provide oversight and serve as an arbiter, comments bordering on personal attacks (and occasionally crossing over the line) are a little much...

    As long as people abide by the rules and do not personally attack others, shutting down a thread because some don't like the topic/discussion that is happening and complain, is a worrisome development. These sort of passionate discussions actually lead to learning for those open-minded enough to discuss the issues. Imagine what would happen if myself and several others who try our hardest to be PC/HC complained to a moderator and expected the thread to be shut down every time some fantasy item was discussed. Very few of these discussions would make it past the 2nd or 3rd response, much less 5-10 pages of responses.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2018
  11. Dec 1, 2018 #11

    BillinOregon

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    I really appreciate this place, the moderators and the administrators. Some of the forum software out there has some very odd algorithms for spotting and altering "bad words." For example, on one forum I frequent, one cannot discuss the widely used four-letter world for Germans in World War II without it being changed to asterisks. Yet that same forum very oddly allows posters to spell "beaver dam" adding an n. It's all part of life's rich pageant!
     
  12. Dec 1, 2018 #12

    Howard Pippin

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    I wish I had an answer about censoring, I've been censored on Amazon for what ever reasons, (they won't tell me), and can't post there anymore. Actually it's a blessing in disguise,as I'm not allowed to rate things and I was spending lots of time trying to be fair. Now I wonder why I did because they aren't.
     
  13. Dec 1, 2018 #13

    Zonie

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    First, let me say that just because I am a moderator does not mean that I can't have opinions and post them. I guess that's why I have made almost 27,000 posts over the years.

    They might not agree with someone else's opinion but, believe it or not, I try very hard not to let my opinion affect the way I moderate a discussion.

    I rarely close or remove a topic unless I believe it violates one or more of the forum rules or, the topic has degenerated into a heated debate between two members saying the same thing over and over leading the discussion nowhere. This is typical of the 5-10 page topics you mention.

    More than a few times when this sort of thing happens, I let it go on a lot longer than many others think it should.
    When a topic gets to the point that no one except the two that are in disagreement are posting over and over and then someone else posts is, "The moderator should close this topic." or similar comments, I weigh the benefits of closing it or letting it go on a bit longer. If I see others asking me to close the topic then yes, I will close it.

    As far as my changing individual posts wording, often I will see something that I know from past history will lead to problems if I let it remain unchanged. I then have a decision to make: I can let it ride and cause problems, I can totally delete the comment or I can try to figure out a way to keep the general intent of the author, rephrased or changed to read slightly differently.
    Which course of action I take depends on my opinion of the value of the post but knowing how it feels to have my own posts blown away by a moderator I rarely will delete the post.
    An example of this was pointed out by Spence10.
    In the post where he wrote, ""Haters!? What the (**&%$%$457 are you people thinking?" it seemed to me that he was attacking any and all of the people who had posted anything critical of a person taking it on themselves to point out that things were not PC or HC, even though the OP had not asked if it was.

    It seemed to me that toning his comment down could head off some future problems so, I did.

    I'm sure that some of you won't agree with me. That's, "par for the course" and I have a rather thick hide so for the moment, I will continue to be a moderator here unless the owner wants me to stop.

    Have a good day. :)
     
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  14. Dec 1, 2018 #14

    azmntman

    azmntman

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    Thank you moderators!

    I myself have a sometimes red hot temper and I can preceive an attack that wasn't there. I try hard...sometimes I let a comment or a post slip in that is not appropriate and I thank the guys for saving me face! I once made a politically ignorant statement and I thank the gentlemen that took me to the woodshed for that (should have been deleted)!

    We all can be guilty (except Cowboy, a true gentlemen) and our moderators do a dam(n) fine job. Thats my opinion and I'm sticking to it! The "historically correct" thread was a joke, I followed it but dropped out of posting after a member name called me, I can make a sailors mouth seem appropriate in church....I worked in a PRESSROOM. LOL.
     
  15. Dec 1, 2018 #15

    Spence10

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    Whereas the comment "Don't let the haters get you down.." was not attacking all those who are interested in HC/PC? Who do you think these "haters" are?

    As I said, I can't always understand the other person's point of view. This decision is an example of that. It seemed to me to be biased in favor of the non-HC/PC group.

    Zonie, you and I don't always see eye-to-eye about a variety of things, but I do now and have always given you high marks as a moderator. I know full well I couldn't do it without a misstep, and I don't expect that of you, either. Without knowing what was in your mind when you censored my post, I can't even know if that was a misstep.

    Spence
     
  16. Dec 2, 2018 #16

    Black Hand

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    Unfortunately, I've seen more than one that was biased to support the non-HC/PC group and not one (that I remember) that was in favor of the HC/PC group. This is the source of my concern. If we can't have a free discussion without the fear of being censored for our perspective, then we have a problem...
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2018
  17. Dec 2, 2018 #17

    necchi

    necchi

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    Your perspective is not being censored or "hated" as it applies to HC/PC.
    There are specific sections of the forum that absolutely apply to HC/PC,, members that seek HC/PC can and do go to those sections frequently.
    The friction is caused when an absolute HC/PC member forces his/her issue of HC/PC outside of those sections for members that want to only casually enjoy the traditional aspects of today's ML's.
    And when I say "traditional" ,, it's meant as non-in-line,, as cap lock and flint lock are currently available from the market.
    Point is,, just because I have a Renegade and enjoy shooting it at a "rendezvous" while staying in my canvas tent for the weekend, with all the other accouterments,, doesn't mean I should be harassed by another member constantly reminding me that it's not HC/PC unless I seek that advise.
    There are many members here that have spent years even lifetimes researching and replicating exactly what our ancestors did and the way they lived,, those members have my ut-most respect for gaining that knowledge and skill.
    But it takes years and sometimes lifetimes to do that. Those people that have attained those skills could perhaps benefit by remembering their humble beginnings.
    HC/PC isn't everyone's bag.
    Sometimes it's just shooting a cap lock rifle, :confused:
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2018
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  18. Dec 2, 2018 #18

    azmntman

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    Ya know Necchi that s a well stated view point and I agree. I would be more likely to go to a rendezvous and camp in a canvass tent on a bed of pine boughs and start my camp fire with flint and steel if it wasn't a big deal that my fire arm had "cabelas" stamped on it. I would REALLY enjoy learning more about living w/o our "improvements. As for the rifle, its a muzzleloader. And I bet if the time machine took me back to 1849 I might take a bit of ribbing about "Cabelas" but I would be loading and shooting same as the boys?

    NOT TRYING TO REHASH ANY PRIOR THREADS just an excellent POV that I can well understand.
     
  19. Dec 2, 2018 #19

    Griz44Mag

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    To John and the Arizona Mountain Man,
    I really like the way both of you have stated your views on this.
    I have invited several of my shooting associates to this site because of the excellent content.
    Two of them I know have abandoned coming here because they perceive (justifiably) this to be a hostile environment for casual recreational shooters with rifles and equipment not considered worthy by the extremists here. We do know that this is not a general attitude of the majority here, but just a few self centered individuals that think everyone else should be bound to their own narrow interests and opinions. We all need to remember, this is a hobby we participate in. ALL of us, even the extremists, live in a modern world and use modern means to live, our vehicles, food, electricity, water, communication, every aspect of our lives except our hobby, is supported by the modern world.
    And that is a real shame on this community. As we go through life we will meet many individuals that we feel this way about, so we choose not to associate with them. Others on this forum I have come to respect and admire for the knowledge they have shared and the strength of their character. A few of those I have now spent some time on and off the range with and treasure them as friends. I have learned to not be emotional or vindictive about the deceitful extremists, but instead will pray for their enlightenment. I have have discovered the narrow use of the IGNORE function.
     
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  20. Dec 2, 2018 #20

    Black Hand

    Black Hand

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    If discussion of PC/HC offends you, then please forego posting ANY responses in threads where it might be mentioned. It is the escalation from the non-HC/PC people that makes these threads go down the crapper. There is ZERO harm done if someone happens to mention an item isn't HC or PC, especially since the poster may not be aware and may also find the information useful (it is presumptuous of the antis to think they know what the OP does or doesn't want to know and does or doesn't know). The problems start when those of you that are decidedly anti-HC/PC start to cast aspersions without cause by accusing the PC/HC people of scaring people away, attacking people, offending people, harassing people or any other absurd and baseless accusation.

    As to the rest, straw-man argument. Not one of these posters has EVER been Harassed. Information is freely given and people are free to accept it or not. The fact that the anti-HC/PC people may happen to shoot a Renegade or sleep in a canvas tent or use toilet paper or eat Froot Loops or any other ridiculous argument against being correct is absolutely irrelevant.

    The anti-HC/PC crowd gives the appearance that if THEY aren't interested then no one else should be. It's like TV - if you don't like the program, you change the channel as no one is forcing you to watch...

    Damascus patch knife thread - we had made it 26 posts before the first insult was thrown out (post #27), continued in #30, #34, and several others (directly or indirectly). Not one post by the PC/HC people ever attacked, harassed, belittled or accused the OP or anyone else. Can't say the same of others.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2018
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