clay smlth most

[Ken Cormier]

Has anyone put a Clay smith trade gun kit together.Orseen one the kits look g ood on his site

 

[LRB]

I've seen one or two that he built, but never seen his kits. Clay Smith is an excellent maker, so I would assume the kits would reflect that. However, the final result would be up to you, no matter where you get the kit. Most kit offerings fail on barrel length. The majority, if not all, of Carolina guns had 46" to 48" barrels. Ben Coogle can supply the proper kit, but Clay Smith may also supply a longer barrel if asked. Much of the hardware from Bens kit is directly copied by him from dug relics, many that he dug himself, and come with the proper lock from TRS. I don't the origins of Clays parts, but are probably also correct, or very close.

 

[Keb]

The fittings on his Type "G" kit are all bent sheet brass. The locks are by R. E. Davis and the barrels are by Colerain available in 20, or 24 gauge smoothbore & barrel lengths 30", 36" and 42". Rifled .54 or .58 available at $25 extra. All stocks are plain maple. The price of the kit is $875.00.

I may be mistaken but it looks like everything except the stock can be purchased elsewhere.

Clay Smith's Type G kit

 

[Capt. Fred]

I handled a couple a week or two ago at his shop. They feel real nice in the hand. The ones with the blue paint are a hoot!

 

[ferroman256]

The trouble with barrels longer than 42" is that they have to be custom made adding to the price of the kit. The Colrain ones are very good. They have a slightly thicker wall so they shoot round ball better than the thin ones and I can mill the tennons and sight dovetails taking that headache out of the kit. The brass parts are made by me copied from originals I have dug up here in VA at a local Rev War arsenal site. I have tried to make these kits as historically correct as possible and easier to build than any other out there. As time allows, I hope to have a Bumford kit out with a barrel patterned off the original 48” one. As a side note, period documents show orders for 3’, 3 ½’ and 4’ barrels. The highest volume were the 3 ½’ ones. (That’s 42” for those without a calculator handy).- Clay

 

[Stophel]

He calls the blue ones "Prussian blue". I've got some Prussian blue, and while it does have a powerful "electric blue" color, it is rather darker than the very light blue he shows. In oil (meaning, as paint), it would be a bit darker yet.

 

[54ball]

Chris,

You raise a good point about the blue. Prussian blue the color, in my understanding is a darker blue like you say. It is also my understanding that Prussian blue is the color of Blue Prints and in some paints is nearly black more so than a Navy. But, As you and I know with 18th Century research things are not always that simple.

This is purely conjecture but were all blues in the 18th Century referred to as Prussian Blue?

Did most blue shades of paint, whether light or dark use Prussian blue pigment?

Did some painted artifacts from the era lead Williamsburg to make the best educated guess? Was a written formula found? As we know with guesses even the best can be wrong.

Things can be repainted. Paints oxidize and change color through the years. Words and terms can change meaning in two and a half centuries making what was written then, not quite what was meant when we read it today.

It would be very interesting to know why the Williamsburg Gun Shoppe chose that shade of blue on those guns.

Travis

 

[54ball]

I knew I have seen that color. I should have remembered it since I do 1812.

Clay's web sight states that the color was chosen from various pieces of equipment like wagons, ect. That light blue was very popular with the US Army in wagons, cannon, caissons,canteens and even knapsacks were painted that color.
Since the Blue Guns of the Boy's Militia were stored in the Williamsburg Armory it lends credence to that very common shade of blue.

BTW the cannon is at The Horseshoe Bend National Military Park by the grave of Major Lemuell Montgomery, name sake of the city Montgomery Alabama.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Historically interesting.
But, to my eyes, that color on a cannon is super-ugly. :barf:

 

[Rod Lassey]

Very common military color---used right on up through the 1870s footlocker.

Rod

 

[Stophel]

Well, if he copied the color from original 18th century articles, you can't say it's not an authentic color (though I can say, it's pretty ugly! :haha: ) I can only assume that the Prussian Blue would be mixed with white pigment (probably lead white) to get it that light a color. His light blue still retains that powerful "electric" quality (for lack of a better term) that Prussian Blue is famous for.

It is the first successful synthetic pigment, invented in 1706, and became widely available very shortly thereafter. It was cheap, colorfast, and of course, a very intense blue color. Other blue pigments used to that point had been prone to fading or insanely expensive (Lapis lazuli).

Sorry, I got the discussion veered away from the heart of the subject!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_blue

 

[Keb]

I painted a trade rifle blue. I used "Colonial Blue" milk paint. It was pretty much that chalky blue color of the blue trade guns stored in Wmsburg. until I applied boiled linseed oil which promptly turned the blue paint greenish. It's an interesting look.

 

[jdkerstetter]

Keb, Why would you apply BLO over milk paint, or any paint for that matter? Enjoy, J.D.

 

[Keb]

There are places where the paint "flaked" off. Actually, I scraped it off :/ Anyhoo, I had bare wood showing so I started rubbing oil on it. I also rubbed a few coats of bee's wax & paste wax. I just can't leave it alone...

 

[jdkerstetter]

Thanks for the quick reply. Enjoy, J.D.

 

[54ball]

I've gotten the itch real bad for one of these lately. Since I do Creek War of 1813-14 I wonder what one of the painted guns would look like with 40 years of age?
It would be a good hunting gun for my son as his eyes are best for smoothbore range.

 

[jdkerstetter]

I'm sure you've seen this Travis: http://www.flintriflesmith.com/Antiques/bumford_tradegun.htm

Not sure what one would look like after 40 years of use, but judging by the permanence milk paint when exposed to the elements, uless religiously maintained, probably not good. Though I doubt the intention from the start was that they lasted that long.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[Stophel]

I doubt guns were ever painted with milk paint. It is not known as being very weather resistant (a "sealer" of some kind is often recommended to put over milk paint). And there is heated debate on just when milk paint began to be used. One side says of course milk paint was used in the 18th century, it goes back to ancient Egypt (which means nothing as far as the 18th century is concerned), the other side says that there is no known documentation of milk paint until the early 19th century.

Either way, if one wanted to paint a gun, he would no doubt have used an oil paint. :wink: