clay pipes

[nhmoose]

All kind of look like modern crack pipes to me.

 

[AdamRM]

Townsends sells reed stemmed clay pipes. Or you can try Pipes and Cigars Another option is pipeshoppe.com I've bought several clays from the last vendor listed.

I smoke pipes everyday, and those pamplin style clay pipes with reed stems from Townsends are some of my favorites, the bowl still gets hot but the reed stem is nice to hold on to and it's comfortable on your teeth

But when I'm in the mood for a "propper" clay smoke, all of my other clays are from Penn Valley Pipeshoppe, very good outfit to deal with.

 

[Mad L]

All kind of look like modern crack pipes to me.

I don't know about smoking that stuff but I did find it funny when some where blasting MacQueen pipes (maker of artisan Briar and wood pipes).
Their complaint was that his pipes couldn't smoke the whole bowl and kept clogging to easy.
We explained that your not supposed to smoke the 'spittle' at the bottom and maybe their baccy was too wet.
They freaked out "Not Smoke the Bottom? Do You Know How Much Weed Cost?!?"

Ahhhhhh, we had to explain these are "Tobacco pipes" not Pot pipes. If you want a pot pipe go to the head shop and buy one of those...*lol*

So, not knowing the other side, I guess there is a difference....

 

[Uncle Miltie]

Breaking the tips off of pipe stems just doesn’t make sense to me, if for no other reason than our forefathers didn’t live in a disposable, throwaway society like we do. Even though clay pipes were cheap, I have a hard time imagining them wasting pipes that way when they could get many more uses out of them.

In taverns people often ate food which would sometimes clog the mouthpiece of the pipe. When this happened the tip was snapped off.

 

[Mad L]

In taverns people often at food which would sometimes clog the mouthpiece of the pipe. When this happened the tip was snapped off.

Break it you buy it!
Any documentation of this?

My challenge to this theory would be: Try to casually 'snap off' the tip if a tavern churchwarden clay pipe.

 

[Uncle Miltie]

Break it you buy it!
Any documentation of this?

My challenge to this theory would be: Try to casually 'snap off' the tip if a tavern churchwarden clay pipe.

It's easy to do with your fingers

 

[Mad L]

It's easy to do with your fingers

I have been smoking clay pipes for many years now - I must buy the good ones.

 

[Uncle Miltie]

I have been smoking clay pipes for many years now - I must buy the good ones.

Perhaps then you can use a drawer or door jamb to snap them off, or a candle trimmer.....

 

[Mad L]

Perhaps then you can use a drawer or door jamb to snap them off, or a candle trimmer.....

I don't think tables at taverns had too many drawers, don't know how many door jams were conveniently located especially if it's a crowded tavern, and I don't think many carried a candle timer in their pocket.

I will stick with the already pointed out method that, at least some, taverns had racks they would use to clean the pipes out using fire. As for a clogged stem from food; a simple stick or broom straw would work fine, I am not sure just what 'pipe tools' many carried back then but there were a lot of Flintlocks and so perhaps vent picks. Further, if the tip did clog of foriegn matter then a quick blow from the bowl side (unlit or empty of course) would clear it out.

As a long time smoker I find a lot of these 'what if' kind of nuts. Bottom line is Pipes Cost Money and therefore 'clipping them over and over' is simply Not Good Business.
Not saying some customers wouldn't do such, but if I was the tavern proprietor: That's Gonna Cost You and if you Break it You Buy it!

And finally; No One has found any written or painted evidence that 'stem clipping' was any kind of common place...No One....yet, it is possible that those documents are hidden with the design plans of a Short Starter

 

[Mad L]

One last thought on clipping stems; while clay pipes are delicate and do break easily - it was not a 'throw away society' back in the day. Even into the 1900s our grandparents were washing and re-using tin foil. If it could be Fixed, if it could be Cleaned, if it could be re-purposed then it was.
As for a Business; they did not use throw away paper plates and cups and therefore I really doubt they would throw away a good clay pipe.

Think about it: the churchwarden was known for it's long stem, the long stem offered a Cool Smoke. If you take to 'clipping' a stem rather then cleaning it - what happens when two agents come in, you either Rent each or provide each as a compliment BUT you hand Tom a full 12 incher and hand Larry one that has been cut down to 8 inches?
If I was Larry, I would Not be amused!

 

[Uncle Miltie]

I don't think tables at taverns had too many drawers, don't know how many door jams were conveniently located especially if it's a crowded tavern, and I don't think many carried a candle timer in their pocket.

I will stick with the already pointed out method that, at least some, taverns had racks they would use to clean the pipes out using fire. As for a clogged stem from food; a simple stick or broom straw would work fine, I am not sure just what 'pipe tools' many carried back then but there were a lot of Flintlocks and so perhaps vent picks. Further, if the tip did clog of foriegn matter then a quick blow from the bowl side (unlit or empty of course) would clear it out.

As a long time smoker I find a lot of these 'what if' kind of nuts. Bottom line is Pipes Cost Money and therefore 'clipping them over and over' is simply Not Good Business.
Not saying some customers wouldn't do such, but if I was the tavern proprietor: That's Gonna Cost You and if you Break it You Buy it!

And finally; No One has found any written or painted evidence that 'stem clipping' was any kind of common place...No One....yet, it is possible that those documents are hidden with the design plans of a Short Starter

As I said earlier the end of the stem was likely snapped with fingers. Many other ways to do it if the hands are not strong enough. Candle trimmers were likely found in every tavern that used candles or lamps with wicks requiring trimming.
Pipe cleaners did not exist until the early 1900's which is why clays were cleaned by tossing in a fire. But it took time to do it. If a previous patron had used the pipe, gotten food in the stem and it had dried it would be much easier to snap the end off the pipe if another patron wanted to use it. Lots and lots of snapped pipes and stem pieces turn up in excavated privies and such. Your idea of clearing a long clay stem from the bowl side makes no sense. I have smoked and collected pipes many years and find your suggestion a bit unrealistic.

Taverns provided pipes for patrons and likely sold tobacco to be used in them: another way to make $$. Clays were not expensive to purchase, even when imported from overseas.

 

[Mad L]

As I said earlier the end of the stem was likely snapped with fingers. Many other ways to do it if the hands are not strong enough. Candle trimmers were likely found in every tavern that used candles or lamps with wicks requiring trimming.
Pipe cleaners did not exist until the early 1900's which is why clays were cleaned by tossing in a fire. But it took time to do it. If a previous patron had used the pipe, gotten food in the stem and it had dried it would be much easier to snap the end off the pipe if another patron wanted to use it. Lots and lots of snapped pipes and stem pieces turn up in excavated privies and such. Your idea of clearing a long clay stem from the bowl side makes no sense. I have smoked and collected pipes many years and find your suggestion a bit unrealistic.

Taverns provided pipes for patrons and likely sold tobacco to be used in them: another way to make $$. Clays were not expensive to purchase, even when imported from overseas.

Do you have any photos of 'clipped ends' or just photos of 'shards'?

Clay's are 'cheap' today, in what is often called a "throw away society". But as I pointed out, money was often hard back then. Taverns often poured unfinished drinks back in the bottle, uneaten food fed to the animals and sometimes used for tomorrow's soup. A penny saved is a penny earned.
If a pipe was clogged (with food?) and dried the the next patron would get one from the rack. Perhaps on a Very Busy Night, with a roudy crowded full house, and an impatient patron they might cut the clogged end off of a dirty pipe and hand it to him....but I can tell you from EXPERIENCE that it only takes about 5 minutes to Burn a pipe clean in an open fire, about 5-8 for it to cool enough to handle. I did one over a range top stove in about 10 minutes and it was back in my mouth.

Now I don't doubt some rich folk may have snapped off the end to keep smoking it, they do like to toss things about to show their wealth. But, if I was rich and clogged my pipe, I would just grab a new one - why ruin the experiance of a relaxing cool smoke with a shortened stem?

And yes, I have heard the wives tale of 'pipe cutters' and using a knife to cut a groove and then snap it...I used to believe them too.

Niw, if you could produce actual Photos of 'clipped ends', not just piles of shards, then i might re-think it. I have seen Many photos of shard collections but none with a meaningful amount of stem bits that appear to have been 'clipped' off.
Further; i would challenge you to try and snap off a clean end, without first cutting (scraping, carving, etc) a path for the clay to brake clean.
I have myself Snipped one off, i had carried it between my teeth for so long i wore a groove, i found it made it easy to carry between the teeth too, untill one day it just Snapped...and it was a clean break, but without that groove - i might have just ended with a dagger like tip. Clay pipes are delicate.

And then there is the whole PROFIT part again - what sounds 'cheap' or maybe even described as 'cheap'; not much back then was considered "cheap"...and: a penny saved is a penny earned - I am pretty sure most businessmen knew that.

Oh, and as far as blowing from the bowl end: I have done that quit a bit, especially ones i have carried in my pocket or a sack and it get bits stuck in the end - it is Very Realistic and Real.
And for a broom straw...really. you have never stuck a straw or small stick down the stem? Are you Sure you have Smoked pipes, or just 'tried' for the experience?
You can see a small selection of my current Clay's in a previous post here, that does not sound my Briar and Cob pipes.

 

[Whughett]

One last thought on clipping stems; while clay pipes are delicate and do break easily - it was not a 'throw away society' back in the day. Even into the 1900s our grandparents were washing and re-using tin foil. If it could be Fixed, if it could be Cleaned.

Totally off subject, but humorous, my bride of 58 years washes and reuses ziplock freezer bags, higher end plastic dinner ware utensils and plates.

 

[tenngun]

Do you have any photos of 'clipped ends' or just photos of 'shards'?

Clay's are 'cheap' today, in what is often called a "throw away society". But as I pointed out, money was often hard back then. Taverns often poured unfinished drinks back in the bottle, uneaten food fed to the animals and sometimes used for tomorrow's soup. A penny saved is a penny earned.
If a pipe was clogged (with food?) and dried the the next patron would get one from the rack. Perhaps on a Very Busy Night, with a roudy crowded full house, and an impatient patron they might cut the clogged end off of a dirty pipe and hand it to him....but I can tell you from EXPERIENCE that it only takes about 5 minutes to Burn a pipe clean in an open fire, about 5-8 for it to cool enough to handle. I did one over a range top stove in about 10 minutes and it was back in my mouth.

Now I don't doubt some rich folk may have snapped off the end to keep smoking it, they do like to toss things about to show their wealth. But, if I was rich and clogged my pipe, I would just grab a new one - why ruin the experiance of a relaxing cool smoke with a shortened stem?

And yes, I have heard the wives tale of 'pipe cutters' and using a knife to cut a groove and then snap it...I used to believe them too.

Niw, if you could produce actual Photos of 'clipped ends', not just piles of shards, then i might re-think it. I have seen Many photos of shard collections but none with a meaningful amount of stem bits that appear to have been 'clipped' off.
Further; i would challenge you to try and snap off a clean end, without first cutting (scraping, carving, etc) a path for the clay to brake clean.
I have myself Snipped one off, i had carried it between my teeth for so long i wore a groove, i found it made it easy to carry between the teeth too, untill one day it just Snapped...and it was a clean break, but without that groove - i might have just ended with a dagger like tip. Clay pipes are delicate.

And then there is the whole PROFIT part again - what sounds 'cheap' or maybe even described as 'cheap'; not much back then was considered "cheap"...and: a penny saved is a penny earned - I am pretty sure most businessmen knew that.

Oh, and as far as blowing from the bowl end: I have done that quit a bit, especially ones i have carried in my pocket or a sack and it get bits stuck in the end - it is Very Realistic and Real.
And for a broom straw...really. you have never stuck a straw or small stick down the stem? Are you Sure you have Smoked pipes, or just 'tried' for the experience?
You can see a small selection of my current Clay's in a previous post here, that does not sound my Briar and Cob pipes.

Referenced on another thread was a guy who at Ft Osage set up a camp of just the equipment an old voyager owned when he died. It wasn’t much. I own two pairs of breeches, two trousers four shirts, six pairs of stockings four waistcoats, one great coat, an old box cut capote, too many pots and pans three pairs of shoes, God knows how many bags, too many pots, a dinner set for me, too many spoons and cooking spoons, a bag and horn set for each gun, cleaning and casting, a couple pair of glasses, lot of knifes, and half a dozen pipes, too many hats, and on and on.
Even when I go light I’ve too much stuff. Candles, lanterns and candle stick holder.
A couple of fire kits, umph. And a ‘six man’ military wedge tent.
Near me is Wilson Creek battlefield. The only surviving home is the well to do Raye House. I could almost finish his home with what I take to an event. Even an officer chair and folding stool.
Pipes were cheap, but even the wealthy got by with often surprisingly little. Often very good stuff, but still not much.
I recall a John Wayne movie where he said you need three shirts, one dirty, one on and one clean. And the whaling song Red Roses: ‘your boots and coat is all in pawn’
Most had little, and waste not want not was real.
Most people, even on the frontier depended on new made things. They didn’t craft their own in general. However once bought they used it till worn out.
Reed stem pipes became a thing after 1830. I’m forced to wonder how many old clay pipes with broken stems got stuffed in a reed or choke cherry or such stem back in the day.
That old voyager referenced above died with one pipe to his name.

 

[Mad L]

That's an interesting quote Whughett, where did you find that one?
My current wife and I have only been married 15 years, my previous wife I returned to the bowels of hadies where she came from: Return to Sender.

I am however curious about thus obsession some keep pointing to pipes 'clogged with food'?
As a long time smoker (since my teens) I can still recall smoking being a norm in restaurants, movie theaters, even in work places and cafeterias, some even call me a "Chain Smoker"; but I myself have never nor have I witnessed others: Take a bit of food and before swallowing take a puff off a cigarette or pipe, that just seems odd to me however it may happen when one is drunk or severely enjoying one's self at the table, probably however about as rare as someone swallowing 'down the wrong pipe' and choking.

Most people today, as I am sure back in the day, even when smoking was the norm and you had to Request a 'non smoking section' (I can recall when such a thing was not a thing); we put our smoke down when the food arrives. Smoking is then saved for after the meal, while drinking, conversing, gambling, relaxing.
I know it's a To Each Their Own but trying to inhale tobacco while chewing food....just don't sound right to me.
To me that is a non-starter for 'proving' the old wives tale. I still need to see those dig photos with unusual amount of seemingly 'clipped' pipe stems; not just random broken pieces, but little bits that appear a pipe was 'clipped' two, three, four times befor being discarded.

 

[Uncle Miltie]

Do you have any photos of 'clipped ends' or just photos of 'shards'?

Clay's are 'cheap' today, in what is often called a "throw away society". But as I pointed out, money was often hard back then. Taverns often poured unfinished drinks back in the bottle, uneaten food fed to the animals and sometimes used for tomorrow's soup. A penny saved is a penny earned.
If a pipe was clogged (with food?) and dried the the next patron would get one from the rack. Perhaps on a Very Busy Night, with a roudy crowded full house, and an impatient patron they might cut the clogged end off of a dirty pipe and hand it to him....but I can tell you from EXPERIENCE that it only takes about 5 minutes to Burn a pipe clean in an open fire, about 5-8 for it to cool enough to handle. I did one over a range top stove in about 10 minutes and it was back in my mouth.

Now I don't doubt some rich folk may have snapped off the end to keep smoking it, they do like to toss things about to show their wealth. But, if I was rich and clogged my pipe, I would just grab a new one - why ruin the experiance of a relaxing cool smoke with a shortened stem?

And yes, I have heard the wives tale of 'pipe cutters' and using a knife to cut a groove and then snap it...I used to believe them too.

Niw, if you could produce actual Photos of 'clipped ends', not just piles of shards, then i might re-think it. I have seen Many photos of shard collections but none with a meaningful amount of stem bits that appear to have been 'clipped' off.
Further; i would challenge you to try and snap off a clean end, without first cutting (scraping, carving, etc) a path for the clay to brake clean.
I have myself Snipped one off, i had carried it between my teeth for so long i wore a groove, i found it made it easy to carry between the teeth too, untill one day it just Snapped...and it was a clean break, but without that groove - i might have just ended with a dagger like tip. Clay pipes are delicate.

And then there is the whole PROFIT part again - what sounds 'cheap' or maybe even described as 'cheap'; not much back then was considered "cheap"...and: a penny saved is a penny earned - I am pretty sure most businessmen knew that.

Oh, and as far as blowing from the bowl end: I have done that quit a bit, especially ones i have carried in my pocket or a sack and it get bits stuck in the end - it is Very Realistic and Real.
And for a broom straw...really. you have never stuck a straw or small stick down the stem? Are you Sure you have Smoked pipes, or just 'tried' for the experience?
You can see a small selection of my current Clay's in a previous post here, that does not sound my Briar and Cob pipes.

Thousands of small stem pieces are found in digs across N America that lead a logical person to assume they could very well have been broken on purpose, and not by accident. While you go to great lengths to discredit my statement you offer no better reason to explain why small pieces of pipe stems appear as they do. I offer a logical assumption to explain it, you do not. I have a few clays, not many though as I much better enjoy the smoke from a briar or meerschaum.

 

[Mad L]

Thousands of small stem pieces are found in digs across N America that lead a logical person to assume they could very well have been broken on purpose, and not by accident. While you go to great lengths to discredit my statement you offer no better reason to explain why small pieces of pipe stems appear as they do. I offer a logical assumption to explain it, you do not. I have a few clays, not many though as I much better enjoy the smoke from a briar or meerschaum.

If you believe that I have offered "no better reason to explain" then it is because you have not read or thought it through.
Digs have also found thousands of small shards of dishes, cups, and pots - logic would say they 'Broke off the dirty parts rather then clean them'.

Drop a clay pipe and does the stem just break off from the bowl?
Silver on a clay pipe, is the stem still just one piece?

What I said was; show me a photo from a dig shows multiple stem bits that would indicate they were 'snalled off or clipped off' on purpose.
All I have seen are bits and pieces.

However, Yes, it was a misinterpretation of what was found until people sat back an thought it through. And with the help of real smokers actually using clay pipes, along with artifacts such as the cleaning rack, and those who found how easily a clogged stem could and can be cleared out - the notion of tavern regularly 'clipping, cutting, snapping' the ends off became: 'Old Wives Tail'

Not to say it 'Never happened', just saying it was Not standard practice and Not an explanation for 'many pieces found at a dig'... no matter in the vicinity of a tavern or not.

 

[jdw276]

If you believe that I have offered "no better reason to explain" then it is because you have not read or thought it through.
Digs have also found thousands of small shards of dishes, cups, and pots - logic would say they 'Broke off the dirty parts rather then clean them'.

Drop a clay pipe and does the stem just break off from the bowl?
Silver on a clay pipe, is the stem still just one piece?

What I said was; show me a photo from a dig shows multiple stem bits that would indicate they were 'snalled off or clipped off' on purpose.
All I have seen are bits and pieces.

However, Yes, it was a misinterpretation of what was found until people sat back an thought it through. And with the help of real smokers actually using clay pipes, along with artifacts such as the cleaning rack, and those who found how easily a clogged stem could and can be cleared out - the notion of tavern regularly 'clipping, cutting, snapping' the ends off became: 'Old Wives Tail'

Not to say it 'Never happened', just saying it was Not standard practice and Not an explanation for 'many pieces found at a dig'... no matter in the vicinity of a tavern or not.

Geez guys, it is a 200 year old clay pipe theory. We are all supposed to give up smoking these days. Give it a rest......

 

[Mad L]

Geez guys, it is a 200 year old clay pipe theory. We are all supposed to give up smoking these days. Give it a rest......

Give up smoking, red meat, fur, gas cars, gas stoves, wood fires, fishing, hunting, guns, alcohol......time to give up all of what most of us discuss here.

No harm in discussing Theories. If it was never discussed then people would still believe that churchwarden pipes had long stems so the end could be clipped off and that every muzzleloader came with a short starter.

 

[sleepingbulldog]

I’m going to drill a hole in the handle of my short starter so I can use it as a pipe. And then after I’m done smoking it I’m going to break the end off.