Civil War??

Discussion in 'Civil War' started by Sun City, Sep 5, 2018.

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  1. Jun 17, 2019 #701

    tenngun

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    I did call Lincoln a traitor. About 30 pages after the southern leaders were called traitors. In fact Colorado Clyde called the southerner Traitors on the third post in this thread.
    Now Bob doing something bad doesn’t justify Tom doing the same thing.
    The southerners were called traitors for holding fast to the principle that the states were sovereign entities and each state demanded a higher loyalty then a centralized federal government.
    I call Lincoln a traitor to the constitution when he sent troops in to Virginia.
    I see no idea in the constitution that justifies an army being sent in to a free state.
    I feel that Lincoln had no respect for the constitution. But few Presidents do. However what you think is not the same as what you do, and but for Lincoln sending troops in to Virginia the war would have never taken place.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2019
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  2. Jun 17, 2019 #702

    gharrod

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  3. Jun 17, 2019 #703

    gharrod

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  4. Jun 17, 2019 #704

    gharrod

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    ==============================================
    He died Sept. 20, 1863 at the Battle of Chickamauga.
     
  5. Jun 17, 2019 #705

    nkbj

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    ppg1949,
    No sir I haven't.
    It's one to look up?
    I'll be looking!
     
  6. Jun 17, 2019 #706

    Eutycus

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    I agree with tenngun especially that last sentence when he said....."but for Lincoln sending troops in to Virginia the war would have never taken place". Thats a tough statement to deny but someone probably will.
     
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  7. Jun 17, 2019 #707

    GomezMunoz1951

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    I bought a "Confederate Grey" baseball hat back when all this Battle Flag crap started and also bought a "First Flag of the Confederacy" patch and sewed it on. In the couple of years I have worn it, only 3 people knew what it was representing. Two were CW re-enacters and one was a orthopedic Dr. who had real strong family ties to the south. He said his great great (Not sure on the greats..it has been a while) grandpa had fought for the South.
    Back when I was a little kid (somewhere around 4 or so, this was in the early '50's), my dad worked as foreman on a big ranch of one of the Montana Senators. His wife was from Virginia and the worst cussword she ever said was when she called you a "Damn Yankee". When you heard that you better start running.
     
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  8. Jun 18, 2019 #708

    Eutycus

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    It sort of takes some of the fun out of it when you're wearing or trying to display a flag or some colors and the other guy doesn't get it. It sort of takes away from the "in-your-face" thing that you had in mind. Haha. What good is being proud if you can't show it off alittle. I'm having a hard time putting this into words or explaining this but I'm sure my point is coming across.
     
  9. Jun 18, 2019 #709

    arcticap

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    Lincoln made Thanksgiving into a unified national holiday in 1863 during the civil war.
    For the 74 years prior to the "Day of Thanksgiving and Praise" proclamation, each state celebrated it on its own date as requested by George Washington in 1789.
    Lincoln made the proclamation in response to a request by a 74 year old magazine editor named Sarah Josepha Hale who had been trying to establish Thanksgiving
    as a unified national holiday for 15 years.


    Washington, D.C.
    October 3, 1863

    By the President of the United States of America.

    A Proclamation.

    The year that is drawing towards its close, has been filled with the blessings of fruitful fields and healthful skies. To these bounties, which are so constantly enjoyed that we are prone to forget the source from which they come, others have been added, which are of so extraordinary a nature, that they cannot fail to penetrate and soften even the heart which is habitually insensible to the ever watchful providence of Almighty God. In the midst of a civil war of unequalled magnitude and severity, which has sometimes seemed to foreign States to invite and to provoke their aggression, peace has been preserved with all nations, order has been maintained, the laws have been respected and obeyed, and harmony has prevailed everywhere except in the theatre of military conflict; while that theatre has been greatly contracted by the advancing armies and navies of the Union. Needful diversions of wealth and of strength from the fields of peaceful industry to the national defence, have not arrested the plough, the shuttle or the ship; the axe has enlarged the borders of our settlements, and the mines, as well of iron and coal as of the precious metals, have yielded even more abundantly than heretofore. Population has steadily increased, notwithstanding the waste that has been made in the camp, the siege and the battle-field; and the country, rejoicing in the consciousness of augmented strength and vigor, is permitted to expect continuance of years with large increase of freedom. No human counsel hath devised nor hath any mortal hand worked out these great things. They are the gracious gifts of the Most High God, who, while dealing with us in anger for our sins, hath nevertheless remembered mercy. It has seemed to me fit and proper that they should be solemnly, reverently and gratefully acknowledged as with one heart and one voice by the whole American People. I do therefore invite my fellow citizens in every part of the United States, and also those who are at sea and those who are sojourning in foreign lands, to set apart and observe the last Thursday of November next, as a day of Thanksgiving and Praise to our beneficent Father who dwelleth in the Heavens. And I recommend to them that while offering up the ascriptions justly due to Him for such singular deliverances and blessings, they do also, with humble penitence for our national perverseness and disobedience, commend to His tender care all those who have become widows, orphans, mourners or sufferers in the lamentable civil strife in which we are unavoidably engaged, and fervently implore the interposition of the Almighty Hand to heal the wounds of the nation and to restore it as soon as may be consistent with the Divine purposes to the full enjoyment of peace, harmony, tranquillity and Union.

    In testimony whereof, I have hereunto set my hand and caused the Seal of the United States to be affixed.

    Done at the City of Washington, this Third day of October, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and sixty-three, and of the Independence of the United States the Eighty-eighth.

    By the President: Abraham Lincoln

    William H. Seward,
    Secretary of State --->>> http://www.abrahamlincolnonline.org/lincoln/speeches/thanks.htm
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2019
  10. Jun 18, 2019 #710

    Zonie

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    Please don't bring the crap that happens on other forums to the Muzzleloading forum.
    It adds nothing to the subject and it is not the forums concern.
     
  11. Jun 18, 2019 #711

    Eutycus

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    Gottcha !
     
  12. Jun 18, 2019 #712

    tenngun

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    Many nations have made an appeal to God as blessing their cause. God was awful busy during the thirty years war, and even the Hundred Years’ War
    Even the Nazis charged in to battle with ‘Gott Mitt Uns’ on their belt buckles.
    I sincerely doubt that any one on either side thought they were on the ‘wrong side’. Lee prayed for the blessing of God before each battle, and often got it.... or so he would say.
     
  13. Jun 18, 2019 #713

    arcticap

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    I discovered that the Thanksgiving celebration was changed by FDR from the last Thursday in November to the 4th Thursday in November.
    Of course it wasn't as if Lincoln had invented the idea.
    He simply helped to make it a Federal holiday that still endures.
    Seward was the person who actually wrote the proclamation in a way to help make it meaningful to all Americans.

    "The event that Americans commonly call the "First Thanksgiving" was celebrated by the Pilgrims after their first harvest in the New World in October 1621.
    This feast lasted three days, and—as accounted by attendee Edward Winslow—it was attended by 90 Native Americans and 53 Pilgrims.
    The New England colonists were accustomed to regularly celebrating "thanksgivings"—days of prayer thanking God for blessings such as military victory or the end of a drought." --->>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanksgiving_(United_States)
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2019
  14. Jun 18, 2019 #714

    Artificer

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    Articap, with absolutely no criticism towards you, I just have to say;

    "AAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHH !! Will this piece of Yankee Propaganda/Revisionist History never END ??????!!!!!!!!"

    The Very First Thanksgiving by European Colonists was done in the SOUTH and almost a year before the Pilgrims ran out of beer and even originally LANDED at Plymouth. The Very First Thanksgiving was done almost TWO YEARS before the Pilgrims had their feast. The Very First Thanksgiving celebration was done in VIRGINIA and was meant to be celebrated annually since that time.

    This FACT was proven to President Kennedy and NONETHELESS, the MYTH that the Pilgrims celebrated the Very First Thanksgiving continues to this day!!!!!!

    http://www.berkeleyplantation.com/first-thanksgiving.html

    Gus
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2019
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  15. Jun 18, 2019 #715

    Treestalker

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    God bless us, every one.
     
  16. Jun 18, 2019 #716

    arcticap

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    Thank you for the enlightenling information.
    If as is implied by the article that the Virginia "Thanksgiving" was not as well known or as long lasting of an annual event, then it's understandable that knowledge about the Plymouth Thanksgiving tradition was more widely taught, especially among New England school children in modern times, that it was a non-secular event that celebrated a spirit of cooperation between the pilgrims and the indians, as being a reason that helped the Plymouth Colony ro survive,by living at peace with the indians for a long period of time when the colony needed and benefited from their assistance.--->>> https://www.britannica.com/topic/Thanksgiving-Day

    But to be honest, the first proclamation of Thanskgiving was made by the Continental Congress of 1782 to give thanks for winning the war of independence and to promote national happiness. Which in all honesty had nothing to do with the Thanksgivings of either of the earlier colonies. --->>> https://www.loc.gov/teachers/classr...onsandactivities/presentations/thanksgiving/#

     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2019
  17. Jun 18, 2019 #717

    Artificer

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    Here again is more revisionist history, I.E. that the Pilgrim's first Thanksgiving was supposedly not a religious event and only a function to promote cooperation with NA's. Their feast was in fact, an event to give thanks to and celebrate the blessings of the Almighty for the good harvest AND they also invited NA's, as a Christian measure of good will in their thanks to the Almighty.

    The FIRST Thanksgiving used to be taught in Virginia and the South, like a whole lot of history that was never taught in the North, when I went to School. Of course in more recent years, history is now taught the way the North and/or how revisionists want it taught.

    I won't get into another revisionist myth that supposedly the Constitution made the separation of Church and State so complete as modern Supreme Court rulings have ruled it to be. It simply meant the Federal Government would not be able to establish a national religion/church like the British had done with the Anglican Church, even though by that time England allowed other churches, as long as taxes were still paid to the Anglican Church.

    Gus
     
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  18. Jun 18, 2019 #718

    Ironfoot

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    Artificer - Thanks for the info on the brown sugar, etc. - Ironfoot
     
  19. Jun 18, 2019 #719

    ppg1949

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    nkbj, The author is David M. Potter. I have to warn you it is a long and tedious read but if you can struggle through it, you get a real idea about the fighting in Congress that lead up to TWBTS. Like I said in an earlier post, TWBTS didn’t happen overnight. The hatred and fighting, sometimes physical, shows what can happen in a divided Congress.
     
  20. Jun 18, 2019 #720

    tenngun

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    Before the war American history was a null subject for study. Books were few historians fewer. After the war there was a bloom of history and historians.... most from New England and they largely wrote the south out of history.
    Not only was the first thanksgiving replaced by the pilgrim thanks giving but Jamestown and Virginia replaced by Plymouth. I was out of high school already when I discovered the first English colony wasn’t Plymouth.
    An attempt to wash the importance of religion in America started in the ‘50s and has grown stronger since, even painting our founders as atheist or agnostics.
    Women voting, ending slavery, public schools, social welfare, humane treatment of animals, attempts to rehab criminals, were all started by religious societies.
     
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