Civil War??

Discussion in 'Civil War' started by Sun City, Sep 5, 2018.

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  1. May 24, 2019 #261

    satx78247

    satx78247

    satx78247

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    To ALL,

    To understand just how different that Johnny Reb from many Southern rural subcultures were from the life experiences of the average Billy Yank (especially soldier boys from the major cites of the Northeast), read the peer-reviewed book, CRACKER CULTURE: CELTIC WAYS IN THE OLD SOUTH by Professor Gary McWhiney.
    (For many a Scots-American or Irish-American in the 19th Century, his loyalty was to "near family" first, then to his clan, to his state & often the Johnny Reb's loyalty went no farther than that. - Such "traditional Celtic warriors", when aroused OR his family/clan/state was threatened OR his manhood was questioned, proved to be FEROCIOUS in battle.)

    yours, satx
     
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  2. May 24, 2019 #262

    tenngun

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    Loved that book. The north did have more new immigrants in its army, many who came from restrictive governments. Just as Celtic Johnny reb was loyal locally as his ancestors had been in Scotland and Ireland, the New Billy yank could not imagine rebellion against a central government. Their families had been broke up and now their natural loyalty was to the government.
     
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  3. May 24, 2019 #263

    Eutycus

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    Kentucky was an oddity in the Confederacy. It was a pro slave state famous for its Orphan Brigade and its other regiments that fought for the South, but it never really left the union to join the other southern states. One of the topics on "that other forum" is General Nathan B. Forrests Battleflag and how it only had 12 stars. Forrest supposedly left out the 13th star representing Kentucky. He was sort of ticked off at them . Or so goes the reasoning behind the story.
     
  4. May 24, 2019 #264

    Lee44ShooterCnB

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    Check out
    https://www.pbs.org/pharaoh/seattle.htm
     
  5. May 24, 2019 #265

    dpw21562

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    Amen !
     
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  6. May 24, 2019 #266

    satx78247

    satx78247

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    Lee44ShooterCnB,

    TYPICAL of the SEATTLE TIMES, the comments about the story being a ""myth" or "fiction" is simply a LIE.
    As I said the documentary is based on the Union Army commander's own official "after action report".

    PHAROAH'S ARMY is a faithful interpretation of how beastly that the invading Union military was to the Southland's poor folks, though obviously some of the dialog is not the actual words of the characters. = The recreation of dialog is usual in the making of documentaries, as few historical events had anyone writing down every word.

    Yours, TMN78247
     
  7. May 24, 2019 #267

    Baxter

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    States' rights, as azmtnman alludes to.
     
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  8. May 24, 2019 #268

    Eutycus

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    I haven't seen the movie but did google it. Its was called a documentory earlier but I sort of doubt it. It looks like it was "based" on an actual event. But like most movies the facts stop way short and the artistic license kicks in. I could be wrong there is another movie out there with a very similar name.
     
  9. May 25, 2019 #269

    Eutycus

    Eutycus

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    I'm on a first name basis with the librarian. There are a ton of Civil War books at the library and I've been ordering even more from the ILL (Inter Library Loan). Gotta try and find that large print. I'm gonna order that Pharaohs Army, eventually. It sounds interesting.
     
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  10. May 25, 2019 #270

    Lee44ShooterCnB

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  11. May 25, 2019 #271

    Eutycus

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    Sorry, I'll stick with Shelby Foote. Who is Kevin Levin?
     
  12. May 25, 2019 #272

    Eutycus

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    I can't say for sure if Levins book is the same one I read last year. The topic was Black Confederates. That picture of the southern soldier Chandler with his servant Silas is fairly well known. That would explain the "familiarity". I do recall that after finishing the book I was somewhat disappointed and let down a little. The book really didnt have all that much new information on the subject. And who knows, it may have been a differant author all together. There are a couple of books on that topic. And I can't seem to locate my checklist of Civil War books that I've read.
     
  13. May 25, 2019 #273

    satx78247

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    Eutycus,

    The MAJOR reason that there are FEW/no really good books on Black Confederates is that MOST of the CSA's personnel records were destroyed by fire in the days after Richmond fell AND because many former CSA service-members either destroyed their own unit's service records or got someone else to destroy the records. - What records that are left are "bits & pieces" are mostly in some local newspapers & family Bibles/"letters written home" by CSA soldiers/church/town/county/parish/state archives. - To my knowledge, there are NO extant complete records of the "predominantly minority group" units.
    Even the "All or predominantly Indian" regiments records (Cherokee, Choctaw, Chickasaw, Creek, Kiowa & other tribes), though "in better shape" than what remains of most other CSA unit files, are incomplete. = The most complete of the A-I regiment's records are the enlistment records of the Cherokee Mounted Rifles.
    (Those "mostly complete files" were found in a trunk in the basement of a Methodist church in Jay IT/OK in the 1880s, by a crew that was remodeling the church.)

    When "the word got out" that the Union military was LYNCHING every Black man in rebel uniform that the radicals could locate, it was in the SELF-INTEREST of such members to take off their uniform & "disappear into the mass of Blacks who were roaming the countryside in great numbers." - By the Winter of 1864-65, only the optimists & "most committed" of rebels believed that the CSA would win the war or survive.

    Note: The quickest rebels to "take off their uniforms" & DISAPPEAR were the few surviving Black CSA commissioned officers, as they KNEW that they would be targeted for death by the invading Union forces.

    yours, satx
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2019
  14. May 25, 2019 #274

    Juice Jaws

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    What documentation do you have that the union was hanging black CSA soldiers? Never been to college but have read volumes on the rebellion and have never read that. And I find it hard to believe that the South would commissioned any black man. And from what I have read the war was over before any blacks saw combat for the south. Just wondering
     
  15. May 25, 2019 #275

    Eutycus

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    Interesting article on Black Confederates. I 'd shuck my uniform too ,possibly, If it meant a rope around my neck. I do mean after the surrender. I like to think I would not have been a deserter. Oh those indian tribes you mentioned. Were Kiowas really on that list?
     
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  16. May 25, 2019 #276

    tenngun

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    Missouri, Arkansas, Oklahoma and Kansas were hot beds of irregulars terrorizing one another and any innocents that fell their way. And any time you have war you have atrocities and roving gangs of criminals.
    That said through, most of the war confederate officers were loath to let their men terrorized the area, while union officers ignored it at best, some went so far as to encourage it. Confederates were just defending their homeland and confederates on union soil was rare. How would they have acted on annexation or occupation of union ground? No one could answer. However it needs be noted when the south invaded the north they acted much better then the other way around.
     
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  17. May 26, 2019 #277

    Eutycus

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    I've heard that numerous times, that when the Southern soldiers did go north they acted alot more "gentlemanly" than did their Northern counterparts.
     
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  18. May 26, 2019 #278

    Juice Jaws

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    The goal in war is to win, at any cost, just ask Japan.
     
  19. May 26, 2019 #279

    Eutycus

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    A certain radio personality says " to kill people and break things". Well if that was the goal then the Yankees succeeded . Wildly
     
  20. May 26, 2019 #280

    satx78247

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    Juice Jaws,

    The handwritten words of the Chief of Custody at PLPOWC, for just one period piece of evidence, who said that he had received orders in 1864 to immediately execute any Black wearing CSA uniform.
    (IF you came to Scotland, MD with me, I could take you to the place where the Black & Indian corpses were buried after being killed & BEFORE those people "were admitted to custody". = They are buried in a mass grave off of the Camp's premises, just about a 1/4 mile from the PLPOW Monument, by an A-A (a freeman) gravedigger who was paid 25 cents for each corpse buried.
    "Persons who were "of color", who were caught in rebel uniform were NOT treated as POWs, as the staff considered "non-white" CSA soldiers to be "NON-HUMANS".

    Another is the recorded words of a COL of the WS cavalry, who told a Black Body Servant (it is unknown whether the Body Servant was a free-man or a slave.), who was captured with a 2LT, VA Infantry in MAR 1865 just North of Richmond, to "Get out of those Rebel rags, as our troops will hang you, if they see you wearing that uniform."

    Reference, Black Officers: The South did NOT commission the Black officers. They were ELECTED by the Black CSA regiments like the Mississippi SABLES & the Louisiana Native Guard, as well as Black soldiers who served in "predominantly Indian regiments".
    (I suspect, but do NOT know that the CSA High Command in Richmond KNEW about those officers but CHOSE to ignore their existence. -Throughout TWBTS, there were volunteer & "privately-raised" units that served WITH but were often NOT "officially recognized" by Richmond but which DID serve in combat from 1861 to the end of hostilities. = GEN Nathan Bedford Forrest (a slave-owner, btw) said of his own Black troops, "No better soldiers ever drew breath than my Negro troopers". = In the case of cavalry troopers, who rode with Forrest, "Richmond HQs" was perfectly aware of the Black troopers but again CHOSE to ignore their existence. = "Out of sight is out of mind.", seems to have been the reality of Back soldiers throughout the WBTS.)
    NOTE: It must also be said that the service of Black soldiers, sailors & marines was certainly NO secret to the average CSA service-member, as after the UNITED CONFEDERATE VETERANS was formed, many Black CSA veterans attended & participated in the Reunions of the UCV. - There are numerous Reunion photos of the late 1800s & early 1900s where Black CSA veterans are in the "group pictures" of the CSA vets. Many of the Black veterans were wearing their uniforms in the photos.
    ImVho, it is long PAST time for everyone to just STOP denying how many Black men (and not a few women, btw) who "served the TRUE CAUSE of Southern freedom."

    yours, satx
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2019
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