Cheating In Matches

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Uriahs

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In our case we fire thirteen shots and score the best ten, and have thirty minutes to complete the course of fire. I am the range officer for our black powder shoots and can tell you that there is no way I can keep count of who has shot what. Some guys just keep shooting until they have 13 holes in target.
🤣
 

stephenprops1

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Why do folks have to cheat in matches? Folks are over 70 years old.

Folks will cheat, openly, to get a cheap medal.

It is not like we are shooting for Cadillacs.

Range Officers will ignore open cheating.

Thoughts and cures?
Some people have to win, no matter what. (Maybe they are liberals at heart?) When I was doing Cowboy Action Shooting I once went to a club in Chillicothe, Ohio. (I was the club secretary of a club in Mansfield, Ohio) I did not realize it until I noticed several of their officers talking about me, but I was winning the match. I did not know any one there and I guess they did not want an outsider besting any of them. They had one stage that was very confusing. When their Top Gun was shooting the Range Office was standing behind him calling out the next shot. Of course, when I shot they did not do me the same favor. I fired one shot out of sequence and received a 10-point penalty. That knocked me from 1st to 3rd place. They were happy then because one of their "home-boys" was going to get first place. I felt cheated and by the rules of Cowboy Action Shooting this was considered a violation of "The Spirit of the Game." I never returned to that club again.
 
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I used to attend a monthly shoot that had a regular who, almost without exception, would claim someone else had shot his target, always a poorly placed shot.

I sighted in prep for a three day shoot, dead on. Day two had me well into first place until after a lunch break where I left my rifle unattended. After lunch my scores plummeted. By that afternoon I was tied for second and at day three I ended in third. I took my rifle out a few days later and found it off for windage. Did someone bump the windage during our break? Who knows? I re-adjusted my sights, they haven't changed since, about 38 years.
 
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Urban Coyote
I was taking part in a Championship shoot many years ago and was winning, on the next round I shot almost off the top of the target and outside the scoring rings, this cost me the match and even a place; someone had given the elevation knob quite a twist.

on a lighter note, an unmentionable pistol club at which I shot had toilet rolls behind the target centers for important matches and advanced them for each shot, this solved any arguments about the number of shots fired, one did have to be a bit careful in the toilet though.
Waste not, want not.
 
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I was singing the praises of Mark, Black powder maniac
New vid he put out on 2022 woods walk.
This is everything a BP contest should be
7231CBBF-0268-4A32-A66F-4CFFBA25FF3E.png
 
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Years ago I went with a friend to my first trail walk M.L. shoot, I didn't have smoke pole myself. So as an observer they asked if I would keep score, gladly I accepted.
The problem occurred on target 13, it was a medal candle where you had to hit the flame to score. After a hit there was a pull line to reset the flame. Well it just so happened that uncle Ross was up (this was my friends uncle who invited us) and when he shot I saw the flame hit squarely and went down and pop right back up, so fast no one else noticed happen.
You can imagine the uproar when I scored it as a hit, I mean they argued vehemently with me. I stood my ground but ultimately decided not to return. The good of it was that my appetite was wet and I did purchase my 1st muzzleloader, a percussion.
I'll say the next shoot was no better, I was ridiculed for not using a flintlock! My point here folks is stop all the infighting, especially with newcomers present!
 
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Many years ago, I ran a muzzle loading rifle silhouette shoot. To get a score, the silhouette had to be hit and fall off the stand to count. We had the target sets to topple and a 45 caliber ball would topple even the heaviest target, the bear at 200 yards. However, if the stand was hit and the silhouette would fall over, that was a miss. Every time the targets were reset, they were repainted so there was no mistaking if the silhouette was hit or not. A few did fall whe the stand was hit, but since there was no mark on the silhouette, the score was a miss. Although once we used a vice grip on the bear targets. The grumbling when there was that satisfying ring and the target still stood on the stand was pretty funny. The target was scored as a hit. The ones that spun on the stand but still stood were misses.
 

Enfield58

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Some people have to win, no matter what. (Maybe they are liberals at heart?) When I was doing Cowboy Action Shooting I once went to a club in Chillicothe, Ohio. (I was the club secretary of a club in Mansfield, Ohio) I did not realize it until I noticed several of their officers talking about me, but I was winning the match. I did not know any one there and I guess they did not want an outsider besting any of them. They had one stage that was very confusing. When their Top Gun was shooting the Range Office was standing behind him calling out the next shot. Of course, when I shot they did not do me the same favor. I fired one shot out of sequence and received a 10-point penalty. That knocked me from 1st to 3rd place. They were happy then because one of their "home-boys" was going to get first place. I felt cheated and by the rules of Cowboy Action Shooting this was considered a violation of "The Spirit of the Game." I never returned to that club again.

A long time ago I was a frequent guest at a nearby muzzleloading club. A few friends would take me there every once and a while.

I thought about joining except for the way that I was treated when visiting the club for the first time. Please keep in mind that I had baby face despite my age. I looked like I was twelve until I turned 35.

Being a first time guest, one of the gray beards was asked to watch me load and shoot so no mishaps could occur. That's a policy that is a good one, especially when it comes to black powder. I was someone that they had never seen before and I don't blame them for wanting to ensure a safe time was had by all.

I was shooting my 1863 Springfield, with paper cartridges, and the observer didn't permit me to load from my cartridge box at the firing line. I had to load at the firing bench, even with pre-measured cartridges. Then walk to the firing line, cap the rifle and fire. Fair enough, it's their club and I'm going to follow the rules.

I also loaded the rifle slowly on purpose so everyone could see that I was operating in a safe manner.

What got me was the comment made by the elderly observer on how slow I was loading. "I can load from my powder horn a lot faster than you can with those paper cartridges."

I let the matter rest but never forgot that. In addition, my baby face didn't help matters. I had been shooting black powder weapons at that time for about 20 years. I was also a much better shot than most members of that club.

So whenever my friends would bring me to the club, all of the gray beards were going to give this baby faced kid some advice.

I would listen politely but didn't see them treat any other new members or guests that way. Many years later, I brought a date to another gun club. She was blessed with extreme beauty. A couple of old goats were drooling over her like hounds on a bone.

That's not a smart thing to do at a gun range. Nevertheless, she was understanding. We broke up amicably later for other reasons.

Back to the black powder club. They got access to some private property for an impromptu shooting match with black powder metallic cartridges. I got five shots in a black circle about 26 inches in diameter at 400 yards with my Sharps 45-70.

I made the statement that I didn't do very good. The RO said, "are you kidding? You're the only one that's hit the paper all day!" None of the advice-giving gray beards bother to give the 12-year-old kid anymore advice again.

Back to the subject of cheating. It's in the human nature. I'm not saying that all people cheat but people do it in all walks of life.

Has anyone here ever sat down to a "fair" poker game?

In college there was only one guy at the poker games winning any money. I attended two games. He was winning every hand. Nobody wins every hand unless they are cheating.

I was watching for him but the cards weren't marked or edges shaved so he could feel the face cards an deal them for himself. There was another guy across the table who didn't win every hand but the interaction between the two was strange.

The latter person had a wife with a tongue so sharp that you could cut steel with it. She would walk around the table running her mouth.

I don't know exactly what they were doing but it seemed to me that they were a team and signaling to each other. I kept my cards close but still wondered how I was losing almost all of the time.

I stopped playing poker with that group. Sometime later a fight broke out at that game. The guy that was married to the sharp-tongue-shrew got his face rearranged.

I saw him later and he looked like a raw hamburger patty. Nobody would talk about what caused the fight. I think someone got tired of losing money to the cheats.
 
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More on Steve, the guy I mentioned in my first post; Steve's best friend Jimmy was an OK shot, on the 3D course he started turning in scores that didn't reflect his level of shooting. Our scoring was on the honor system, keep your own score and turn it in later. Steve smelled a rat so he shot in Jimmy's group one evening, as they pulled arrows Steve would write Jimmy's actual score for each target on the palm of his hand.

When Jimmy turned in his score and later stepped forward to accept his first-place trophy Steve stepped forward and said "wait a minute", he then announced to the crowd that Jimmy had cheated, Steve showed the actual score he had written on his hand. Steve was about 6'6" and 300 lbs. When he spoke, people listened.

Jimmy was caught but still denied he had cheated, his wife was crying, it was an uncomfortable scene but Steve felt so strongly about cheating that he was willing to turn in his best friend.

He may have been 18 at the time, he is in his 50s now, I have admired him ever since.
 
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More on Steve, the guy I mentioned in my first post; Steve's best friend Jimmy was an OK shot, on the 3D course he started turning in scores that didn't reflect his level of shooting. Our scoring was on the honor system, keep your own score and turn it in later. Steve smelled a rat so he shot in Jimmy's group one evening, as they pulled arrows Steve would write Jimmy's actual score for each target on the palm of his hand.

When Jimmy turned in his score and later stepped forward to accept his first-place trophy Steve stepped forward and said "wait a minute", he then announced to the crowd that Jimmy had cheated, Steve showed the actual score he had written on his hand. Steve was about 6'6" and 300 lbs. When he spoke, people listened.

Jimmy was caught but still denied he had cheated, his wife was crying, it was an uncomfortable scene but Steve felt so strongly about cheating that he was willing to turn in his best friend.

He may have been 18 at the time, he is in his 50s now, I have admired him ever since.
When I was shooting, we shot in groups of four. One member of the group was chosen as the scorer, he scored the other three members shots, but not his own. One of the other three shooters would.
 

Uncle Miltie

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We had people for the 100 yard target put something on the target backstop a set distance above their target to act as an aiming post for judging hold over. I pulled it off when I went to hang my target.
I don't see anything wrong with that. Chunk and table shooters do something similar all the time.
 
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Installing a tang bolt with a really pronounced head, so that the groove for the screwdriver works quite well as a rear sight in a smoothbore match were rear sights are not allowed...,

LD

I thought that was kind of a given that you set the bolt head so that it lines up with the front sight.

Never thought about it sitting higher than it should.

Walt
 
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I don't see anything wrong with that. Chunk and table shooters do something similar all the time.
With respect to your opinion, I see it as wrong. The target and the target only is the objective. If a gun is not zeroed for dead center, then that is the shooters issue. To lighten this disagreement, it really depends on what the club rules are.
I have been to shoots where paper targets can be placed on the target board in any 360 deg position. Other shoots the target can only be placed on the board the way the publisher intended it to be shot at.
Larry
 
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NOW some of these at an informal event among friends are funny...,

Like the group getting tired of Roy winning all the time, so after one of the day's casual shooting contests, Roy finds he has 2X the number of hits he should have, and all of the other guys have a clear miss... 'cause as a joke each of the other guys shot once on Roy's target... . ☺️

Or the tang-bolt groove "rear sight"... "Hey you guys didn't say I couldn't do that"... 😁

It just ain't funny in a serious contest. 😇

LD
I tend to shoot at the very right side (end) of the line for two reasons; when shooting a Flintlock and I've been known to accidentally shoot the wrong target. If mine is on the end, it's hard to mistake someone elses.

There's a guy in one of my groups who is VERY competitive. He usually places first. He got really upset when I shot his target!

Walt
 
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