Cheapest northwest trade gun kit?

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kentuckyjed

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I don't think Kibler is doing a Northwest Trade Gun as of yet, I have heard he might. I have also been told the Kibler kits have the most minimal amount of work to do on the buyer's end, you pretty much assemble the kit to check fitment and then pick you're finish from what I've been told.
 

Mason Ponton

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No Northwest Trade gun will be ‘cheap’, a more relative term is cheaper. Pedersoli’s trade gun kit is what I would rate as east and cheapest because… 1. You don’t need expensive tools for this kit, 2. It can be assembled on a kitchen table or the floor, 3. Your local hardware store supplies are more than sufficient for this kit.

Clay’s Smith’s kits I would rate as cheaper too, his kits are not hard to assemble and you can even ask him if he can do additional work..

TOW’s trade guns are not available, the stocks and barrels are out until they find new suppliers.

The Indian made trade guns are not really kit guns, but can be reworked, and most of the time they need to be. I would caution against overworking them, the stocks are made of brittle teak and or rosewood.

Personally if i were to do a kit, I’d go with Clay Smith. He’s always there to assist if needed.
Thanks I like the pedersoli idea and Clay, but is there a cheaper kit in a similar state than that? I know they're all going to be in that range but every dollar counts if I'm going past $1,000.
 

Gunny5821

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Thanks I like the pedersoli idea and Clay, but is there a cheaper kit in a similar state than that? I know they're all going to be in that range but every dollar counts if I'm going past $1,000.
If you should go with the Pedersoli kit, here's a link to the Dixie Gun Works Pedersoli Indian Trade Musket Kit. They don't have it listed under Pedersoli on there site, so it's hard to find. I hear lots of folks always bashing Pedersoli guns, but I've never had a problem with any of their guns. I think for production guns, they're hard to beat. Their finished guns have the brown Cerakote finish, but this kit's barrel comes with a blue type rust preventive finish, which is easily stripped off for finishing as you desire. If you need help in stripping off the protective finish, I can give you some help. I stripped the finish off with Eagle Chrome Wheel Cleaner. I had the barrel stripped in less than 15 minutes, using an old toothbrush in the hard to reach areas, then it was ready for a light sanding and browning. Right now, Dixie's price is $1050

Indian Trade Musket Kit
 

Texas Gil

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Thanks! And keep em coming. This is actually helping 🙂. I don't want to have unrealistic expectations. I've done that with a mutch bigger project that turned into a financial burden so heap it on!
Thanks for starting this thread. I'm in the same boat.I have built one complete kit ( a Sharon Hawkin) and was over my head in skills and tools. Had to redo the stock twice, got soldering done by a pro, finally complete but with flaws in inletting the trigger guard . I can fix that if I wanted to but otherwise a good looking job. That's been 15 years ago but I'm still no good at inletting and soldering. I'm convinced I need a Kibler kit or a Pedersoli kit to match my skill set after reading all this . Thanks again
 

Mason Ponton

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Thanks for starting this thread. I'm in the same boat.I have built one complete kit ( a Sharon Hawkin) and was over my head in skills and tools. Had to redo the stock twice, got soldering done by a pro, finally complete but with flaws in inletting the trigger guard . I can fix that if I wanted to but otherwise a good looking job. That's been 15 years ago but I'm still no good at inletting and soldering. I'm convinced I need a Kibler kit or a Pedersoli kit to match my skill set after reading all this . Thanks again
Your welcome! But I didn't intend for it to go this way I assure you 😄. I'm still not sure what to do but I'm leaning on just caving on an Indian gun, but I want it to last because I'm not going to be able to fix it in the future. Thus probably costing me the same amount in the long run anyway...
 

Mason Ponton

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Try Northwest Chief's Musket used by Tecumseh , Indian made short barrel (chiefs) price is decent.
Thanks! Ya I've been considering one from them or Loyalist Arms. Everyone else seems over priced but I don't know their warranties or policies, maybe their better but I've seen military heritage reviews and most seem positive. I think Loyalist has them ready to go out of the box though. Not that I can't drill a touch hole. I just think their policies my cover more because you don't have to modify it.
 
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Thanks! Ya I've been considering one from them or Loyalist Arms. Everyone else seems over priced but I don't know their warranties or policies, maybe their better but I've seen military heritage reviews and most seem positive. I think Loyalist has them ready to go out of the box though. Not that I can't drill a touch hole. I just think their policies my cover more because you don't have to modify it.
Not that hard. Measure 3 or 4 times. Eyeball it again to make sure. There are YouTube videos out there showing people actually doing it.
 

Mason Ponton

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Not that hard. Measure 3 or 4 times. Eyeball it again to make sure. There are YouTube videos out there showing people actually doing it.
If your talking about drilling the touch hole, then ya I know. Thanks though!🙂. 11bangbang on YouTube is actually a good channel for india guns. I can't think of another specific one though.
 

mikesto44

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Ok I'm no professional builder but they are not that hard to do. Well for that matter most kits aren't hard. But the trouble with certain kit makers is that you get a supply chain of parts sent to whoever to sell you a kit. Which intern causes problems.
Traditions are ok kits but that's all I'll say an yes I have put together a couple.
Now if you have little confidence in your skills. You Then I would seriously look at the Kibler line of kits.
He has the SMR Southern rifle and he has the Colonial rifle that you can get in smoothbore. They are incredibly easy to put together.
His latest kit the Woods runner is supposed to be the easiest to date. I have helped put three of his SMR kits together. First took 15 hours from opening the shipping box to stained and on the firing line. Their that easy...
Last if you do a good job you will if you decide to sell it latter. Should get your cost of the kit back...
 

Mason Ponton

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Ok I'm no professional builder but they are not that hard to do. Well for that matter most kits aren't hard. But the trouble with certain kit makers is that you get a supply chain of parts sent to whoever to sell you a kit. Which intern causes problems.
Traditions are ok kits but that's all I'll say an yes I have put together a couple.
Now if you have little confidence in your skills. You Then I would seriously look at the Kibler line of kits.
He has the SMR Southern rifle and he has the Colonial rifle that you can get in smoothbore. They are incredibly easy to put together.
His latest kit the Woods runner is supposed to be the easiest to date. I have helped put three of his SMR kits together. First took 15 hours from opening the shipping box to stained and on the firing line. Their that easy...
Last if you do a good job you will if you decide to sell it latter. Should get your cost of the kit back...
Thanks 😊. Thats very encouraging! I also didn't know it came in smoothbore! I'll have to look again.
 
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I use Pecatonica quite often. You can call them and discuss what you want. They can tell you right on the phone what is in stock and ready to go. Generally they are well stocked. I highly recommend them.
 
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I'm not going to lie it all still seems a little intimidating. I'm confident I can solder but I can't accurately cut metal. I consider my wood working less than mediocre. I'm willing to learn and I really want to try my hand at it some day but money is tight (not hurting or anything just limited fun money), I don't have alot of the tools I think I'll need, but I love the idea of making my own gun. So I'll try to psych myself out.

Would it be better financially to have them do all the barrel work or do it myself? (I have access to a torch but no soldering materials)

Like I said my wood working may be abysmal. Unfortunately I'm not a good judge because I've done so little and what little I have done isn't very great, obviously I guess for a beginner. But how hard is it really to shape the stock if I got a half stalk as they call it? Would that be more worth it to get the full stock? (Got files and sandpaper but no chisels or planer or anything more advance than hand saws etc.)

Staining and finishing wouldn't be an issue. I'm sure I can drill and tap but I only have access to hand drills and a tiny jewelers vice. Might be able to find an old vice in my dads scrap pile.

Anyway sorry about the long post but for anyone who feels like giving advice feel free to be brutally honest and opinionated. Thanks!
You might want to get an inexpensive Traditions kit to practice on. Much cheaper way to learn.
 

Mason Ponton

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You might want to get an inexpensive Traditions kit to practice on. Much cheaper way to learn.
That's a good idea. But I already have two miroku tower pistols with shattered stocks so I can practice on them come to think of it. Especially since they're kinda garbage to begin with.
 

Surfinator58

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Won’t fit on an Indian trade gun. The Indian imports sell muskets and muskatoons and carbines
The Indian imports can be shot as is, but to get a better gun need the stock shaved down and the ramrod replaced with hickory. The barrels are too bright and need some dulling.
The kits need the a lot of fitting. The tang side plate,butt plate,trigger need inletting. The lock needs final fit. The gun needs breech plug fit, underlugs fitted and soldered, and drilled, and ramrod pipes inlayed. Sight needs soldered on.
Lots of wood needs removed from the fore stock. Sanded and finished.
View attachment 169147 View attachment 169148 View attachment 169149 View attachment 169150 View attachment 169151 View attachment 169152 View attachment 169153 About one hundred hours.
Hey 10 gun do you think an entry level black powder shooter could actually finish a kit from track of the wolf or sitting fox? From what I've seen I don't think unless the person is a highly skilled Tradesman in some other field with a knowledge of hand tools and woodworking! I hear a lot of people say on this website it's a good way to go but for a newbie I couldn't imagine a more frustrating way to get into the sport what do you think?
 
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Skill wise, I’m in the same boat as you. So, this isn’t a dig at you but my comments about myself.
I don’t want to biden up a kit that should turn out really nice for I ultimately want to build a SMR from Jim Kibler. I got a basic Traditions kit(aka Muzzle Loading kit on training wheels) so it is a training ground to step forward. Also, the dremel tool stays in Texas while the kit is in Louisiana to keep it from being an illegal Destructive Device in munging up the kit. With that one under my belt, going to step up to an InvestArm Hawken carbine. Then, and only then, I’ll reevaluate where I am to see if I’m brave enough for a more advanced kit. If I’m not there, it’ll be another Traditions kit until I can go training wheels up with the big boys on the block.

It is my opinion about my skills, that I need lots of practice before touching a Kibler SMR or the Pecatonic River Harpers Ferry 1803. I also have issues with motor control in my hands brought on by being a male RN(aka ‘Lift Help’) in a hospital with bariatric patients(‘aka >500# Land Whales).

Regardless, I wish you the best luck for the Trade Guns are an elegant piece.
I know a near-retirement woman physical therapist who states the same; how difficult it is to work on a 300+ pound patient!
 
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Hey 10 gun do you think an entry level black powder shooter could actually finish a kit from track of the wolf or sitting fox? From what I've seen I don't think unless the person is a highly skilled Tradesman in some other field with a knowledge of hand tools and woodworking! I hear a lot of people say on this website it's a good way to go but for a newbie I couldn't imagine a more frustrating way to get into the sport what do you think?
Both Track and Sitting Fox will do some of the fitting for you. Fitting the breech plug or placing the lugs, say.
There is no end of skill to building and one can get real far in the woods. However a few tools and time you can do much little jobs with little instructions. A exacto carving kit, a 1/4 and 1/8 inc chisel some files and rasp and drills and taps cover all you need for plain.
I can not praise some you tube videos enough on building. Dualist 54, and Kiebler do well. If you get on Rumble Bill Raby is over the top.
A man did a job, if one man can do it another can. And old guns often display little foul ups. But if you take care and move slow you find before you know it your tang is in. Pretty quickly your trigger guard is done, your pipes look great.
And
Your on a good forum, with literally centuries of experience who just can’t wait to answer questions as you go along
 

Mason Ponton

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Both Track and Sitting Fox will do some of the fitting for you. Fitting the breech plug or placing the lugs, say.
There is no end of skill to building and one can get real far in the woods. However a few tools and time you can do much little jobs with little instructions. A exacto carving kit, a 1/4 and 1/8 inc chisel some files and rasp and drills and taps cover all you need for plain.
I can not praise some you tube videos enough on building. Dualist 54, and Kiebler do well. If you get on Rumble Bill Raby is over the top.
A man did a job, if one man can do it another can. And old guns often display little foul ups. But if you take care and move slow you find before you know it your tang is in. Pretty quickly your trigger guard is done, your pipes look great.
And
Your on a good forum, with literally centuries of experience who just can’t wait to answer questions as you go along
Thanks lots! That's very encouraging! I'm still leaning to indian just for budget sake so far but we'll see!
 
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To be historically correct the gun has stamps and the side plate needs to be inlet. However….
Some guns imported from the Low Countries didn’t inlet that.
The buttplate was thin brass sheet and goes on real easy. Most were nailed on. You have to pre drill the nail holes so you don’t split your stock, but it gives you a great fit.
There is no entry pipe
The only hard part of the gun done plain is getting the forestock to tiny amount of wood. You just don’t want to keep shaving wood, and you need to.
I like to tape a wood dowel in to hold the fore stock as your trimming.
It’s a good kit for a starter
 

kentuckyjed

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20221024_160732.jpg

This is my first complete build. It is from Pecatonica. $908.75 I think is what the total was with shipping and the build book. 36 inch barrel, standard maple stock. I tried to keep it like a poor boy style that was put together by a German immigrant that is a vintner, hence the grapevine and grape carvings. This was my first attempt at building a gun other than refinishing some of my other muzzleloaders, browning metal parts and applying more traditional finishes. Youtube and this forum are great resources for the build. It's not as bad as it might seem, just take your time and you can build your own muzzleloader with your signature style if you wish.
 
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